Sarah & Amina Said – Shot To Death By Father – “Talked to Boys”
Sarah Said was 17 years old. Her sister Amina was 18. Friends say their father murdered them on New Year’s day because Sarah had talked to a boy at her part-time job. The father is from Egypt where what he did is not considered murder, but a father’s right.
We often think that everyone wants the same things in life. This is just another reminder that not everyone shares the same values, and that some cultural values and standards may not be compatible with a free and democratic society.
Texas Star-Telegram – Story here
Barbados Free Press 
Culture or not, killing is killing. This is madness. What else can anyone say of this?
Do they warrant being regarded as human beings?!!!!
It would be very interesting to know how our police force would treat such a situation as this if such a crime was to be committed on these shores.
Would the ‘one law for the Medes and one law for the Persians’ apply or would justice be served adequately?
What kind of religion puts “honour” above love of one’s children?
At least in Texas there is still capital punishment and they are not afraid to carry out the sentence.
The religion of peace rears its ugly head again. We need to be watchful of its rise here.
ninemikemike and Peltdownwoman:
What the man did is against Islamic law. Islam is a religion of peace and what the father did is not accepted in Islam. Obviously there was something wrong with him for him to think that it is an honour to kill his children. In time, he will be punished for it.
It’s very interesting to see that BFP only posts stories portraying the negative image of Islam.. Obviously they’re very ignorant when it comes to knowledge of the relgion.
It’s pretty obvious to a trained eye that the murders of the Said sisters in suburban Dallas were dishonor killings.
Ellen R. Sheeley, Author
“Reclaiming Honor in Jordan”
Barbadian Muslim – I take as I find, and what I find, and is indisputable fact, is that Muslims are causing the terrorism that is destroying the world, and trying to drag us all back to the dark ages.
I am sure that there are many good and peace-loving Muslims, indeed I know of some, but their community as a whole does NOTHING to speak out against the evils perpetrated in its name. I am sorry, but Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Islamic law calls for the murder of so called offenders against its principles for all sorts of minor transgressions, including apostasy.
You don’t get calls for the killing of Christians by their church for wanting to change their religion.
Until Muslims put their house in order, if indeed it can be done, the rest of the world is right to treat them with grave suspicion, and, yes, fear.
Barbadian Muslim,
I suspect that you are a convert to Islam. You said that what the father did is “not acceptable in Islam”.
I suggest that you go back to the “drawing board” for honour killings are “very acceptable” in fundamentalist Islamic states like Saudi Arabia.
What this is domestic violence and is NO MEANS related to ISLAM! We can not blame a religion due to one persons wrong doing. What he did is agianst islam and will be punished if not here then in the here after. We cannot degrade a religion or race just becuase one individual did something wrongful. We can not say the American race is bad just because Andrea Yates killed her kids. This is due to mental illness, which perhaps could be the same case in this killing. So however Please do not degrade a religion which only portrays PEACE. so why is it that you can say something so wrong? Please I encoruage you all to open a quran and find a verse that says what Said said is lawful in teh religion of Islam. I could never blame a religion for one persons wrongdoing. why should You?
BFP
I am sure you have seen the carnage that is now taking place in Kenya as a result of tribal hatred. Please do not stir up religious and ethnic problems in Barbados. Muslims have been living peacefully in Barbados for decades.
Do you have evidence that Barbadian Muslims are engaging in honor killings or acts of terrorism? If not, I don’t think you should, as the old timers say, “humbug” them.
I feel like Barbados is teetering on the edge now, because of growing tensions between Barbadians and “foreigners” on the island. Some Barbadians are even hostile towards Barbadians, like myself, who live abroad.
There once was a time when I thought Barbadians would never resort to political or racial violence. I am no longer confident that they would not. I do not want to see Barbadians killing each other in the streets like the Kenyans are currently doing. Kenyans used to be among the most progressive people in Africa, but now they are killing each other, because certain people with agendas have convinced each group that they need to suspect the “other” group of wrongdoing. I don’t want people to ever be able to say, “Barbadians used to be the most progressive people in the Caribbean, but now they are killing each other.”
You have been providing readers with quite a bit of information lately about Muslims abroad. You have been linking Barbadian Muslims with Muslims in other countries without producing any evidence that Barbadian Muslims are engaging in anything wrong. Black people don’t like it when people dislike them because of things other Black people have done, so we need to be careful how we treat others.
I am sure you write about certain topics to increase the number of hits on your site, but please be responsible. It will be interesting to see if you will print this.
*************
BFP Replies
Hi Bajangirl,
“Black people don’t like it when people dislike them because of things other Black people have done, so we need to be careful how we treat others.”
Pardon me while I (hopefully gently) take you to task for this statement. I understand your statement because I used to see the world through the colour of my skin as well.
On one level, skin colour has little to do with one’s values, perceptions, culture, dreams and imposed limitations. On another level skin colour is everything. I understand such things better than you know. Those of us who are neither black nor white but somewhere in between have a special understanding of self and colour. For some very interesting thoughts on colour I would encourage you to listen to some of what famed blues guitarist Johnny Winter has to say about skin colour. You want trouble? Try growing up as an albino in the deep south during the 40’s and 50’s. Here’s the man’s official website: http://johnnywinter.net/bio/
But that discussion about skin colour has very little to do with a religion. Skin colour is innate, and (Michael Jackson weirdness aside) is a physical characteristic that we are born with and cannot change.
Religion is a decision. Even in the most extreme circumstances when one is forced to choose between a certain religion and death, religion is still a decision that a person makes every day and every moment of the day. (And a decision to have no religion is still a religious decision.)
Religion is mailable, changing and subject to narrow peer-group influences and wider cultural pressures. One can put religion on and off in all its flavours, but one cannot do the same with skin colour.
Skin colour IS. Religion is a choice.
For many decades if not several hundreds of years, Islam co-existed with other religions and although there may have been tensions and flareups, Muslims and their non-Muslim neighbours co-existed throughout the Middle East. It may surprise you to know that not so long ago Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and so many countries in that area had millions of Jews and Christians as citizens.
No more.
The 20th Century saw the rise of the fundamentalist Wahabi Muslim sect – as a strain of Islam that “does not play well with others”.
One of the characteristics of this flavour of Islam is the subjugation of women to the point where they are property. In the purest of pure strains of Wahabi religion – Saudi Arabia – women cannot drive or vote. They cannot even be outside of the home unless accompanied by a male relative. It is a flavour of Islam where rape victims are regularly punished for being raped. Where 16 year-old girls are hung by the neck until dead for the offense of having sex while unmarried.
This flavour of Islam is making its way to the Caribbean through the generous oil-money of Saudi Arabia – that provides building funds for new Mosques, books and other educational materials and religious leadership imported from Saudi Arabia to preach in the Caribbean.
In Barbados, we are not immune to such outside influences. In our own country are religious instruction books that label Jews and Christians as “pigs” and “apes”.
So, to raise a flag of caution, Barbados Free Press occasionally carries stories of the clash between civilized cultural values and the values of this fundamentalist strain of a great religion.
That is why we carry such stories once in a while. As a flag of caution.
Here is what BFP has said in the past…
Many of the most widely distributed Saudi texts and teaching materials extol lessons and information that are completely at odds with the values and attitudes of modern societies. These educational materials teach children the Saudi Wahabbi message that Christians are “pigs” and Jews are “apes” and that non-Muslim religions are “worthless”.
Folks, its time to start asking questions about how we all want to live together in Barbados – and to remind our elected and appointed officials that they have a duty to ensure the quality and content of the education being given to all our children.
But, I will let a Bajan muslim have the last word about Islam in Barbados and women.
“In Barbados you do not have to worry about muslims killing themselves or killing people unjustly.”
(snip)
“As for you O Westerners, claimants of civilization, you have constitutions and statutes that destroy upright moral character and permit all kinds of forbidden acts, the likes of fornication and homosexuality, as well as usury which destroys the economies of entire nations, and the eating of improperly slaughtered animals (dead meats) and pork, something that causes the loss of concern for women’s values, and thus a man does not feel protective of his wife, sister, or daughter, and thus she fornicates with or intimately befriends whomever she pleases. These are some of the means which lead to ruin, and they have been prohibited in all of the prophetic messages.”
… Barbados Muslim Salafi Manhaj commenting on Muslim Suicide bombing and Killing Of People Who Wish To Leave The Muslim Faith. (link here)
SO…. Bajangirl, I hope that your father, brother or husband is very protective of you… because otherwise, being only a mere woman, you of course will have no control over your own behaviour and thus need the continual supervision of a male relative…
BFP Replies
Hi Bajangirl,
“Black people don’t like it when people dislike them because of things other Black people have done, so we need to be careful how we treat others.”
Pardon me while I (hopefully gently) take you to task for this statement. I understand your statement because I used to see the world through the colour of my skin as well.
On one level, skin colour has little to do with one’s values, perceptions, culture, dreams and imposed limitations. On another level skin colour is everything. I understand such things better than you know. Those of us who are neither black nor white but somewhere in between have a special understanding of self and colour. For some very interesting thoughts on colour I would encourage you to listen to some of what famed blues guitarist Johnny Winter has to say about skin colour. You want trouble? Try growing up as an albino in the deep south during the 40’s and 50’s. Here’s the man’s official website: http://johnnywinter.net/bio/
But that discussion about skin colour has very little to do with a religion. Skin colour is innate, and (Michael Jackson weirdness aside) is a physical characteristic that we are born with and cannot change.
Religion is a decision. Even in the most extreme circumstances when one is forced to choose between a certain religion and death, religion is still a decision that a person makes every day and every moment of the day. (And a decision to have no religion is still a religious decision.)
Religion is mailable, changing and subject to narrow peer-group influences and wider cultural pressures. One can put religion on and off in all its flavours, but one cannot do the same with skin colour.
Skin colour IS. Religion is a choice.
For many decades if not several hundreds of years, Islam co-existed with other religions and although there may have been tensions and flareups, Muslims and their non-Muslim neighbours co-existed throughout the Middle East. It may surprise you to know that not so long ago Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and so many countries in that area had millions of Jews and Christians as citizens.
No more.
The 20th Century saw the rise of the fundamentalist Wahabi Muslim sect – as a strain of Islam that “does not play well with others”.
One of the characteristics of this flavour of Islam is the subjugation of women to the point where they are property. In the purest of pure strains of Wahabi religion – Saudi Arabia – women cannot drive or vote. They cannot even be outside of the home unless accompanied by a male relative. It is a flavour of Islam where rape victims are regularly punished for being raped. Where 16 year-old girls are hung by the neck until dead for the offense of having sex while unmarried.
This flavour of Islam is making its way to the Caribbean through the generous oil-money of Saudi Arabia – that provides building funds for new Mosques, books and other educational materials and religious leadership imported from Saudi Arabia to preach in the Caribbean.
In Barbados, we are not immune to such outside influences. In our own country are religious instruction books that label Jews and Christians as “pigs” and “apes”.
So, to raise a flag of caution, Barbados Free Press occasionally carries stories of the clash between civilized cultural values and the values of this fundamentalist strain of a great religion.
That is why we carry such stories once in a while. As a flag of caution.
Here is what BFP has said in the past…
Many of the most widely distributed Saudi texts and teaching materials extol lessons and information that are completely at odds with the values and attitudes of modern societies. These educational materials teach children the Saudi Wahabbi message that Christians are “pigs” and Jews are “apes” and that non-Muslim religions are “worthless”.
Folks, its time to start asking questions about how we all want to live together in Barbados – and to remind our elected and appointed officials that they have a duty to ensure the quality and content of the education being given to all our children.
But, I will let a Bajan muslim have the last word about Islam in Barbados and women.
“In Barbados you do not have to worry about muslims killing themselves or killing people unjustly.”
(snip)
“As for you O Westerners, claimants of civilization, you have constitutions and statutes that destroy upright moral character and permit all kinds of forbidden acts, the likes of fornication and homosexuality, as well as usury which destroys the economies of entire nations, and the eating of improperly slaughtered animals (dead meats) and pork, something that causes the loss of concern for women’s values, and thus a man does not feel protective of his wife, sister, or daughter, and thus she fornicates with or intimately befriends whomever she pleases. These are some of the means which lead to ruin, and they have been prohibited in all of the prophetic messages.”
… Barbados Muslim Salafi Manhaj commenting on Muslim Suicide bombing and Killing Of People Who Wish To Leave The Muslim Faith. (link here)
SO…. Bajangirl, I hope that your father, brother or husband is very protective of you… because otherwise, being only a mere woman, you of course will have no control over your own behaviour and thus need the continual supervision of a male relative…
Excellent, factual and thought provoking reply BFP.
Barbados in the nearly half century that I have been proud to have known her has been a beacon amongst small nations for her openness, generosity, and tolerance of all religions, faiths creeds and colours. Muslims have been here in all that time and have been unassuming, assimilated and contributory members of our society. I see a fault in that relationship now. The all enveloping burqa which has the effect of cutting the wearer off from her fellow Barbadians has become more prevalent. This is a retrograde development, and does nothing for the furtherance of a truly integrated multicultural society. It is divisive, it leads to distrust, and must be deplored. It is NOT required in the Quran, and I believe has no place in a modern secular Barbados. When people are barred from entering a bank or other public place of business with their features concealed by a motorcycle helmet or suchlike, then they should be barred from doing so with any so-called religious garb that effects the same disguise.
We must be vigilant for our society, lest it be undermined, and reduced from its current enviable position. Muslims should listen to the concerns of people of other faiths, or NO faith, and realise that their beliefs are just that, and not necessarily anyone elses, and NO more valid. Only then will be able to live together in peace. Most importantly, when you come to live in a new, and host nation, it is incumbent on you to give way to the indigenous mores. You are a guest, and if things don’t suit you in Barbados because of your religious beliefs, you should consider relocating to a part of the world where you will be more comfortable.
It is never ok to murder your daughter(s), wife, niece, sister — anywhere, ever.
Karen Tintori, author
Unto the Daughters: The Legacy of a Honor Killing in a Sicilian-American Family
http://www.karentintori.com
Ninemikemike,
Your posting is perfect. It is exactly what I wanted to see and is written in a style that BFP should have used.
BFP
If you had simply expressed your feelings in the manner that Ninemikemike expressed his/hers, I would not have complained. Ninemikemike explains how Bajans initially welcomed Muslims and how the Muslims initially assimilated into Bajan society. He/she then describes changes that are occurring in the Bajan Muslim society that affect Barbadians. He/she advises Bajans to be vigilant and not let others cause the society to change for the worse. He/she then tells Muslims to assimilate for the good of the country. I don’t consider his/her posting to be divisive. It appears to have been written by an intelligent and fair person. The information is relevant to Barbadian society.
On the other hand, I just reviewed some stories you have presented on the topic of Muslims and responses from some of your readers dating back to 2006. That was the worst reading experience I have ever had. You and the readers took turns churning out random quotes from the Koran and peppering the postings with comments about how barbaric Muslims are. People don’t learn much from reading random quotes.
I understand that you “want to raise a flag of caution.” I was so focused, however, on trying to read through the multitude of quotes from the Koran and keeping up with the characters who were arguing with each other and trying to prove that each one knew more about the Koran than the other, that any point you wanted to make was literally lost in the translation.
You said, “This flavour of Islam is making its way to the Caribbean through the generous oil-money of Saudi Arabia that provides building funds for new Mosques, books and other educational materials and religious leadership imported from Saudi Arabia to preach in the Caribbean.” What evidence do you have of this? This would make a good story. Instead of posting a random story from abroad, tell a story (with evidence) about how the actions of the Saudis are affecting Barbadians or other West Indians. Try to make your stories relevant to Barbadian society.
Lately, BFP and BU have been making statements without evidence. BU has led readers to suspect that Guyanese may be involved in the murder of Kenrick Hutson when there is no evidence whatsoever that Guyanese are involved.
I do not know what is worse. Getting censored information from the traditional media or getting exaggerated or twisted information from the blogs. I am just an ordinary person trying to get information.
BFP, I’m ‘impressed’ that u even bothered to take the time to reply to that idiotic, ‘Bajangirl’s post of yesterday, and at such length!
Although, I suspect she meant well, such a ridiculous and hysterical post I have n’t read for a very, long time.
One of the ridiculous, suggestions she made was that we should do nothing, just ‘sit down and grin in the air’ until trouble actually, arrives, from those people!
Look, I live beside some of them here in the UK, and their behaviour is very, suspicious. I’m not happy about it at all but there’s little I can do, for now. If u hear there’s been an explosion in a residence here, occupied by muslims, and the neighbouring occupants were also killed, or injured, then they could well, be us!!!!
And then this silly woman suggests u should just sit back and wait for trouble to happen before you do anything, about it!!!!
Stewpseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Bimbro:
You raise your ignorant head once again.We are tired of your obvious hatred for Muslims,as can be seen in your posts on this blog.
How could Bajan girl be ignorant or ridiculous?You live next to people you dont like …..just move!!
You cannot go around assuming that everyone is bad because their looks,way of life,customs etc. differ from yours.
Yes,we have to be cautious and vigilant in our society but I fear you have gone over the line to paranoid behavior.
To Bajan Girl, and Barbadian Muslim, and to all Barbadians regardless of colour or creed, to illustrate the points I was trying to make, click onto today’s Sunday Telegraph, read the article by The Right Reverend Michael Nazir-Ali, Anglican Bishop of Rochester in the UK.
The Rt. Rev. Nazir-Ali is Pakistani born, and the first and currently only Asian Anglican Bishop in the UK. He illustrates graphically the problems that have arisen in the UK, where the host nation has allowed unchecked growth of an alien and aggressive religion. His voice is heard only because of his background, and sadly coming from any other Bishop would have been denounced as racist. This ploy is routinely used to stifle honest and open debate on the subject.
I urge you then to read the readers’ comments below his article for points of view from all sides of the divide – and I do mean DIVIDE. I particularly commend the quotes between Margaret Thatcher and King Faisal during Mrs Thatcher’s visit to Saudi Arabia. The King asks “when will we hear the muezzin calling the faithful to prayer in London?”, Mrs Thatcher replies, “when I hear the sound of church bells in Riyadh”.
The situation in the UK has become explosive, and is probably beyond the point of correction. It must NOT be allowed to happen here. We already have Muslim only schools – do we KNOW what they teach? Are they TRULY open to inspection? Do they receive any funding from overseas, and if so WHERE? Saudi Arabia has a long record of supporting the indoctrination of militant Islamic sects – do Barbadian Muslims receive finance from that quarter? Do Barbadians really want their tranquillity disturbed by an alien custom of muezzin calling the faithful to prayer?
These are all questions, that as a free and open society which wishes to remain that way, we MUST ask. The alternative is there to be seen, and I for one would hate this beautiful Island to go down that route, and I speak as one who has NO faith, but feel that some are benevolent, and others are self-evidently less so.
BFP,
I want to make something clear. When I said Ninemikemike’s posting is perfect, I was referring to his (I will assume Ninemikemike is a male) third posting that is just above my last posting. I was so bored and tired after reading some of your prior postings about Muslims, that when I got back to the current postings, I just looked at the last one, which happened to be his third posting. I did not notice he had written the less tactful postings earlier.
Also, regarding the treatment of women. Bajan women have more to fear from the non Muslim men in Barbados than the Muslims. A large number of the children born in Barbados are born out of wedlock and get limited support from their fathers. Quite a few Bajan women are physically or mentally abused and have to work extra hard to support their children as single mothers. This is another relevant topic that you can discuss, the ill treatment of women, especially Black women, by Christian men in Barbados.
“such a ridiculous and hysterical post I have n’t read for a very, long time.”
Obviously you don’t read much – you certainly didn’t learn grammar – as Bajangirls’s post was so far away from being either hysterical or ridiculous, that it makes your statement ludicrous in the extreme.
BFP.. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to exercise some comment moderation. When people come to this site looking for intelligent (NineMikeMike / BajanGirl) discussions on points of interest, but are forced to wade through idiotic comments such as Bimbos, it turns the experience sour and they will not return. See ya!
Bimbro,
I am so glad you referred to me. You have lost credibility, buddy. You go from blog to blog posting (with inconsistencies) just to be posting. You should recall that under a prior heading entitled “The Ugly Secret Of Barbados Revealed Worldwide: Rihanna “I Was Bullied At School For Being White” that you made the very first posting. Your posting was actually one of the most negative postings. Later, however, under the same heading, you did a 180 and criticized me and others for criticizing Rihanna and you then spoke glowingly about her. Someone named Pat pointed out that you had attacked her and others on other blogs for making comments about Rihanna.
Now, just to set you straight. I do not have a problem with BFP doing stories about Muslims. I just want them to back up what they say with evidence and make their stories relevant to Barbados.
I am an avid reader. I like to learn new things, but I have to feel that what I am reading is accurate and not just someone’s opinion or suspicion. If BFP says, “This flavour of Islam is making its way to the Caribbean through the generous oil-money of Saudi Arabia that provides building funds for new Mosques, books and other educational materials and religious leadership imported from Saudi Arabia to preach in the Caribbean,” I want to see the evidence. This would make a fascinating story. Right now I don’t know if the Saudis are funding the aforementioned things or if crackpots in the Caribbean are creating their own brand of Islam and funding everything with their own money.
The stories about Muslims, as they have been presented by BFP in the past, have failed to attract most of the regular, more articulate bloggers. They mainly resulted in Muslim bashing. I am just simply trying to tell them to try a different approach.
Bimbro, you said about Muslims “Look, I live beside some of them here in the UK, and their behaviour is very, suspicious.” Bimbro, if you are Black, I can assure you that your neighbors who are not Black feel the same way about you. I just hope, for your sake, that they, to copy a part of your quote, “do nothing, just ‘sit down and grin in the air’ until trouble actually arrives” from you. Otherwise, you may end up like the hundreds of people of color who were shot dead by the police and others, because people thought they had to be proactive and stop the “suspicious” people of color before they acted. Remember Amadou Diallo, the innocent West African man who was shot dead by the police in New York? Remember the innocent Brazilian man who was shot dead by the British police, because they thought he looked like a Muslim?
As I mentioned earlier, I have learned that the more articulate bloggers don’t post under this subject. I will leave this for you, Bimbro, and others who post just to be posting.
Didn’t we have an “honour killing in Barbados a few years ago? Can anyone remember the two muslim girls who died after eating pancakes?
It was rumoured that they were talking to black men.
The rest is history and not e fella ain’t get a day.
Bajan girl:
Please dont waste time on Bimbro.If you look at his posts from way back you will see a pattern of hatred towards many people……he hates Jamaicans,Pakistanis,Jews…..you name it, he hates it ….Bimbro should be living on the moon.
To Ninemikemike
You said ” Iam sure that there are many good and peace-loving Muslims, indeed I know of some, but their community as a whole does NOTHING to speak out against the evils perpetrated in its name”
This is sooo wrong. Muslims across the world condemn terrorism and they’re hundreds of muslim organizations that speak about this. (e.g muat.co.uk ) They’re over a billion Muslims in this world, so you’re going to judge all of them on the actions of a few? And the community does speak out against it even here and that is a fact because I have helped organized exhibitions and talks about these issues.
Secondly, the headcovering is mandatory in Islam and since you claim we’re living in a “democratic” society, freedom of religion shouldn’t be a problem shouldn’t it? You seriouosly have something aginst Islam and I’m wondering why considering you HARDLY know anything about the beliefs and principles of the religion!
And I will make this point for the second time “THE ISLAMIC SCHOOL HERE DOES NOT RECEIVE FUNDING FROM SAUDI ARABIA’S Education system”. The school is made up of both Muslim and non-Muslim teachers and they do not teach the children “acts of terrorism” as you so put it. BFP you need to stop printing this false information and if it makes u feel any better go DO SOME RESEARCH TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY HERE . Stop looking for random articles on the internet condemning Islam and stop quoting random quotes from the Quraan. You must understand that one cannot quote from the Quraan and interpret it whichever way they like especially if its only one line!! The same goes from any other book. You cannot just pick out a couple of lines and get the whole concept of it. There are certain ways on interpreting and understanding it!
And finally i want to make the point that men and women are considered equal in Islam, each having certain rights and responsibilities. Please take a look at this to get a bit more insight on this equality http://www.islamonline.net/English/family/2005/03/article01.shtml
*******************
BFP Comments,
So, the Muslim school in Barbados has no text books, DVDs, videos or satellite programmes from Saudi Arabia?
And men and women are equal in Islam? Wow! Do husbands have to have permission to leave their homes? So women really can drive in Saudi Arabia? I never knew!
Barbadian Muslim – just repeating something endlessly does not make it true, and if you are going to take part in a rational argument as I hope you are, show where I said that Muslim schools were “teaching children acts of terrorism” You made that up!
Did you read as I suggested the Pakistani-born British Bishop’s writing? You have a computer, so you must be able to. And did you read the reaction of the “leader” of the Muslim community. If you did, you will know what I am talking about.
It is a fact that it is the Muslim communities, like it or not, that are producing these terrorists, or fundamentalists, and I say, no I INSIST that you who are against it are not doing enough to root it out. Where is the Muslim outrage at the savage sentence passed on the young girl in Saudia Arabia for the offence of being gang-raped. What do you say to the British, who are barred from returning to their homes in a mainly Muslim district because of some festival called Eid? What do you say to the world that has seen internet footage of savage beheadings, and a young Muslim girl being stoned to death by a gang of men gleefully filming the atrocity on their phones. I have seen this and I was sickened, and by stones I mean concrete blocks. No other religion/faith/cult/what-you-will either carries out these barbarous acts, or condones them.
You say I have a problem with Muslims: no my friend – I have a problem with Muslim refusal to integrate, and their desire to take their own way of life and implant it where they go, as if they never went. One of my oldest and best friends is an Iraqi and a muslim – we disagree on many things, but never on this, he is as ashamed and puzzled as I would be in his place, and he speaks, no shouts out against it at every opportunity. Would that you had more like him.
ANONYMUS
please get your facts straight. those girls died tragically from eating aAmerican brand pancake mixbought from a local supermarket .They were not muslims .It happened over nineteen years ago.The parents had to practically beg the relevent authorities for the cause of death which after years of waiting was given as an allergic reaction to the mix.
The Muslim school in Barbados follows a government curriculum like all the other primary schools in the island. Saudi Arabia speaks Arabic a language different from English; therefore, all books obtained from Saudi Arabia will be in Arabic. Would it make sense for the school to get these books? How would non Muslim teachers who only speak English teach students anything in Arabic when the majority of students and their parents do not even speak Arabic.
Furthermore is the education department in Barbados so lacking in man power that they do not check that the school under their authority is being run like how is it supposed to be? I do think NOT. Isn’t it the Ministry of Education’s responsibility to ensure that schools across Barbados are running according to Barbadian laws?
BFP since you are stuck on your theory that the Muslim school is getting books from Saudi Arabia and everyone is disagreeing with you, why don’t you give them a call tomorrow morning to find out the truth? I am begging you to call so that you can be reassured of this and inform all of us what you did find out.
With regards to the article, did you even read it? Men and women are equal where each has their own rights and responsibilities. No, women cannot drive in Saudi Arabia but this doesn’t mean anything. Saudi Arabia claims to be an Islamic state in which they interpret Shar’iah law in whatever they want. The Saudi King doesn’t allow women to drive for a reason I do not know even though women can be pilots there.
Just because things happen in Saudi Arabia doesn’t mean they reflect the teachings of Islam. Many people even argue that the Saudis are using this authority they think they have to export their version of Islam with complete disregard of the fundamentals of the religion and the millions of Muslims around the globe.
************************
BFP Comments
Hi Barbadian Muslim,
So, let’s get this straight because although you have danced all around the issue of books, DVDs and Videos from Saudi Arabia, you have not denied that Saudi Arabia has provided these items to the school. Read what you said… you did dance all around it without providing a direct answer.
So please confirm that there are no books in any language, no DVDs, no Videos from Saudi Arabia used at all in the school.
Let’s start with just that point and then we’ll be happy to continue with the dialogue.
thanks,
Robert
We have always had a religion and culture clash in islam….yes some cultures think its a ‘father’s right’ to do what that father did but islam doesn’t condone it, accept it or encourage. Parents buried their daughter’s alive in the time of the Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. but he put a stop to it. Remember before you start criticising a religion because of the cultural practices of some of its followers, look at all aspects of it and do proper research because nowhere in the Quran does it say that a parent has the right to kill a child for any reason.
What is the problem with Bdf and the muslims here in Barbados ?Why do you have neegative stories of muslimsfrom other countries .Lets read stories both negative and positive about muslims herein Barbados. Then we willrealy have an interesting topic of discussion.Compare the lifestyles of muslims to the life styles of other religion here in Barbados which will be informative to all of us.
Are women indeed treated as second class within Islamic culture? Certainly there is plenty of divine sanction for their being thus treated. The Qur’an declares that a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man: “Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her” (2:282). It allows men to marry up to four wives, and have sex with slave girls also: “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (4:3). It rules that a son’s inheritance should be twice the size of that of a daughter: “Allah (thus) directs you as regards your children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females” (4:11).
Worst of all, the Qur’an tells husbands to beat their disobedient wives: “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them” (4:34).
Numerous hadiths even have Muhammad informing a group of women that their gender will populate hell: “Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of ‘Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, ‘O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).’”
When they ask him why, he explains, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.”
Muhammad’s assessment of their deficiencies comes from his Qur’an, as he explains further: “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man? [cf. Qur’an 2:282, above]…This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?…This is the deficiency in her religion” (Bukhari 1.6.301). The idea that hell will be filled with more women than men occurs frequently in the hadith. According to Muhammad, “I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women” (Bukhari 7.62.126).
These traditions demonstrate why some Muslim men have so often fit the stereotype that they treat women with suspicion, disdain and derision. When they deal with women, they are dealing with a group that suffers from severe moral and intellectual deficiencies, not to mention all sorts of physical impurities in a religion obsessed with ritual cleanliness. Women are, consequently, headed for hell.
In light of all this, think for a minute about what Muslim spokesmen in Canada could be saying. They could acknowledge that the divine sanction given to the beating of disobedient women by Qur’an 4:34 has created a culture in which such abuse is accepted as normal. They could call for a searching reevaluation of the meaning and continued relevance of that verse and other traditional material that reinforces it, and call in no uncertain terms for Muslims to reject definitively its literal meaning, now and for all time to come. They could acknowledge the prevalence of honor killing in Islamic culture, which has no sanction as such in Islamic theology but nonetheless enjoys enough Islamic approval that the Jordanian Parliament a few years ago rejected on Islamic grounds attempts to stiffen penalties for it. They could call for sweeping reform and reexamination of the status of women in Islam.
THIS COMES FROM a website…
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=107EB0F0-4C33-4971-BB38-F9946BD03260
BFP Al-falah school (The muslims school here) does not receive any books, DVDs, videos from Saudi as they follow a government curriculum like all other primary schools. And I’m the one dancing around this issue? Take a look at yourself first. You stated and I quote
“Many of the most widely distributed Saudi texts and teaching materials extol lessons and information that are completely at odds with the values and attitudes of modern societies. These educational materials teach children the Saudi Wahabbi message that Christians are “pigs” and Jews are “apes” and that non-Muslim religions are “worthless”.”
And I’m telling you that no the Muslim school do not receive books from Saudi but all books from there do not portray this image. Saudi Arabia is still rooted in Islamic beliefs and principles. I have books from there which do not state what you are saying they do. Obviously, if a school was to order books from Saudi, they would research it to ensure it is appropriately suited for children. (This point was made in another one of your dialogues by several other people)
You started out by saying the Muslim schools are buying books from Saudi which teaches disrespect for other religions and violence. Then you turned it completely around by indicating that everything from there is considered evil. BFP do you even know any Muslims or spoken to anyone Muslims from Barbados? I suggest you do to learn some stuff and get your facts straight. It’s getting really annoying correcting AND pointing out all your mistakes.
oh and ANONYMOUS
The pancake issue happened in 1988 or somwhere around there. The girls were not Muslims. They had an allergic reaction to an american pancake mix which was bought in the supermarket. Know your stuff before writing!!
ninemikemike
January 6, 2008 at 12:53 pm
To Bajan Girl, and Barbadian Muslim, and to all Barbadians regardless of colour or creed, to illustrate the points I was trying to make, click onto today’s Sunday Telegraph, read the article by The Right Reverend Michael Nazir-Ali, Anglican Bishop of Rochester in the UK.
The Rt. Rev. Nazir-Ali is Pakistani born, and the first and currently only Asian Anglican Bishop in the UK. He illustrates graphically the problems that have arisen in the UK, where the host nation has allowed unchecked growth of an alien and aggressive religion. His voice is heard only because of his background, and sadly coming from any other Bishop would have been denounced as racist. This ploy is routinely used to stifle honest and open debate on the subject.
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As for Anonymous and some others, the above will suffice as my answer to you.
Keep on fooling, yourselves!!!!
To BDF
You are stating repeatedly that the the muslim school here in Barbaods is Receiving D.V.D’s books and other materials from Saudi Arabia.
Others have posted to their knowledge this is not accurate.
If you are adament to state that you are correct.
Then please check it out once and for all.Instead of accusing others of dancing around the subject.Please bring proof to your statements otherwise ithis is going prolong in to a boring repetive nonsensical blog.
Lets bring some fresh topics to discuss.
What is clear is the father was a pathological lunatic. Yet to assume the nature of the dispute had anything to do with an “honour killing” is presumptious. It appears there may have been a domestic dispute or a number of possible reasons, although to label it honour killing because the father was Muslim from Egypt is ridiculous. Sensationalism! Honor killing is neither in the Quran nor is it specified in any of it’s traditions. Boundaries between CULTURE and RELIGION must be clear. This is a horific crime, and it must be pointed out that if this was in fact for “honour’, it is in fact a tribal and not religious custom. To make it clear, honor killings are FORBIDDEN by Islam. Honor killing is murder and must be punished accordingly. Honor killing was one of many abuses of women in pre-Islamic Arabia that Islamic teachings eradicated. Islam categorically condemns and forbids honor killings!
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BFP comments,
Actually, Maj, the girls’ aunt is saying that it was an honour killing over the girls talking to boys. Just google it and you’ll see.
While I am happy that Islam prohibits honour killings, that doesn’t explain why there are so many associated with that religion.
Bajangirl, I’ve just noticed your post of yesterday. Before finishing reading it I had to check what this terrible thing was which I said, about Rihanna, especially, as I’m one of her biggest fans!
I see now, you think that because I’m an admirer I can’t also, be critical of her, if I want to be!
‘Bgirl’, you almost persuade me to stop even bothering to say anymore to you, if that’s the silly position you’re going to adopt!
You, Pat, and whoever, got the time to remember what I said to them in this, that and the other forum!!!! Good luck to you! I got a life!!!!
This is a discussion on Islam. You’re sounding more and more ridiculous. You want evidence! Look at every country where there’s a significant, population of Muslims! Now, that was n’t too hard, was it!!!! Why did n’t u think of it, or wearing ‘rose-coloured-specs’!!!!
Bajangirl, u and your ‘more articulate blogger friends’, can deep dreaming! The rest of us have got our eyes firmly, open!!!!
Goodnight!!!!
So please confirm that there are no books in any language, no DVDs, no Videos from Saudi Arabia used at all in the school.
Let’s start with just that point and then we’ll be happy to continue with the dialogue.
thanks,
Robert
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Rob, so u mean the indoctrination start aready?!!!!
Tell, Bgirl, Anonymous, and the other nutters!!!!
Barbadian Muslim – I am sure BFP is eternally grateful to you for “correcting AND pointing out all their mistakes”, but what may be of more interest to the readers here would be your ANSWERS to the points made.
1. Do Barbadian Muslims consider women the equal of men?
2. Do Barbadian Muslim women enjoy ALL the benefits of enfranchisement? Are they allowed to vote to their conscience, or are they subject to the instructions of others?
3. Are Barbadian Muslim men ostracised and punished if they raise a hand to their women?
4. What would be the Barbadian Muslim community’s reaction to one of their number who might wish to convert to, say, Christianity?
5. Do you unreservedly condemn the barbarous punishments meted out in other countries under Sharia law?
6. Why did you make the statement that I said Muslim schools here “teach children acts of terrorism”? I neither said nor implied any such thing, and I have asked you to explain your misstatement previously, without the courtesy of a reply.
A good two way dialogue is the best way for opposing views to reach mutual understanding, and I resent being labelled anti-Muslim or anything else. I comment on the changes I see in Barbados, some good, plenty bad, and the concerns that arise from these changes. More integration between the different sections of Barbadian society is a goal to be aimed for in my view, not more isolationism.
To Bajangirl, Anonymous, and the rest of idiots on here (not all of you, by any means!), I repeat the question I asked at the beginning of this discussion;
Do they warrant being regarded as human beings, and do you think they would treat us better than their own?!!!!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article661257.ece
about the merder of the sister’s amina and sara said :
i live in egypt and i can say that if the merder was commited here , this fanatic idiots will be hanged or at least be in prison for life , this merder have nothing to do with democracie it is just the fanatisme and rasisme of a religion that gives man all the writes and treet women like a peace of sheet , but yet according to low this man i can assure you in egypte deffently was coing to be hanged. igiorence is what this peopole are holding in there minde , and nothing exepte a strong cleaning corse will change them.
I think we are all missing the point. As residents of the United States we are required to follow the rules of the nation state in which we reside. I understand that there are different cultural beliefs but United States makes law for a reason. I am not saying that you need to give up your cultural beliefs but respect our culture and our law. People expect Americans to respect their cultural beliefs when we are in their country so why is not the same here. If you violate the law then you should suffer the consequences. The law is there to protect residents as a whole and a violation should be handled accordingly.
I found that story covering the recent murders of those two innocent young girls to be most appalling. However, what’s even more appalling is an inconceivable unpleasant fact that would result in the capturing of who ever perpetrated this evil crime. It’s no secret that there are those in legal circles right now who would gladly move heaven and earth (devils applicants) just to create a defense for whatever male or female murdering bastard did this heinous crime. Naturally, the only item of interest at this time is the motive that may led to the killer or killers. Do you people really want to know what the true motive was behind these two senseless killings? Then I suggest that you take a little time out of your busy moneymaking schedule by picking up that lonely multi-Chapter book that’s now gathering dust on your bookshelf. Yes pluck it off the shelf opened it up and turn to Timothy II and read the entire chapter from beginning to end. In conclusion, you will learn the fundamental truth that creates this kind of evil that we have not seen since the beginning of the world until now. Those lawless individuals in Timothy II were once good loving human beings, however now they possess nothing but hearts of stone. By reading this short chapter that explains in fine detail human attributes laced with evil that has now resurface in these “the end of days” Once you have completed the chapter, you may come to realize why we have so much wicked violence out there today, that’s now threatening every thinking living creature with death. In conclusion, it is an ancient hatred of all mankind that allows for no coexistence, only the global extermination of a species once known as man.
God must act soon
to evryone that thinks islam is ok with this it isnt this is totally againstb islam and in the quran it says clearly you shall not kill your children this father was just a total idiot may Allah bless these beauitiful girls souls and give them a place in Paradise Ameen
Well, just another reason for people to hate muslims. This father apparently had a issue and sometimes they take their “honor” way too far. Even if the girls were “talking to boys” or even being intimate with them, the Quran states that the girls should only be kept at home and away from these things until they have agreed to do right by their religion. Killing the girls for these kinds of things is, unfortunately, a cultural thing. It is by no means a religious duty or right!
A-O-A!
Hello incharge,
I visited your website, i am so shocked by read all this. I skam is the religion of peace.It does not against the spmle talking between agirl and boy.Girls can do work in any field Islam gave him ful rights to the Womens. such inccidents make a bad name for Islam. Islamis not bad but the people who present it they are bad..I am a professional translator.As you know that Urdu is official or understanable language in different countries suchasIndia,Pakistan,Bangladesh,Saudi Arbia etc.I want that i do the translation of this article and tell to the people that Islam is not bad. I am interested to work with your ministry or organization as a translator. I hope so that you will consider me for this great option. I will wait to hear from you if you have any work of translation in to Urdu . Thank you
Sincerely,
Zainab Naseem
hey bro how can u say islam is peace since when?
islam is full of hatred and killing and murder since it is began by ur ancestor mohammed who murdered 600 jews??? so don’t fool ur self by saying that islam is peace
Over and over again in the Quran does it state that all-nonbelievers should be killed, In fact the bible can actually go 1 or 2 books without mentioning mass-murder. But the Quran? EVERY SINGLE PAGE is FULL of MURDER and GENOCIDE. Islam is the religion of control, terrorism and war. If Muslims cannot see this then I propose turning the entire surface of the middle east into glass via E=MC2.
ok, this father was a crazy asshole. and it’s NOT in his “right” in his culture. this crap that “it’s not considered murder” is completely wrong. in that culture/religion, murder is murder no matter where you are. you will go to HELLFIRE for any type of murder. so to the editor or creator of this article. !@#$ you. you !@#$. you’re a lying sack of !@#$.
There is only one religion. one god. religion is islaam and god is ALLAH. Seek n shall find. believe in ALLAH n worship to ALLAH n we will gain paradise. All of us will die n have to go to ALLAH. If we have no good deeds. we have to go to hell. n if we have bad records we will recommend to send us once again to earth. but it will be too late…so my dear friends let us fear ALLAH N fear the punisments.
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