Do Freemasons worship Satan as the “Great Architect of the Universe”? Tony Jordan says so and many Barbadians agree

Freemason symbolism in Rihanna’s music and videos?

Most of the Freemasons I’ve met let folks know that they consider Masonry as something less than a religion, but more than an ordinary community group like Rotary or Lions. They certainly wouldn’t see anything sinister in being a Mason or they wouldn’t be part of The Craft. But are these ordinary folks being duped? Are they being tricked into worshiping ‘The Old One’ as Auntie Moses would say. (Auntie warns everyone not to say ‘the name’. Say anything else but don’t call ‘the name’. Well, that’s Auntie for you.)

Last Wednesday and Thursday nights, over seven hundred Bajans gathered at the Sanctuary Empowerment Centre to pray and listen to a series of talks called Secrets of Freemasonry – opened by Tony Jordan, a well-known anti-Freemasonry crusader.

A few years ago our old friends at Keltruth Blog ran an extensive series of critical articles looking at Freemasonry in Barbados, its origins, practices and Masonry’s influence in the Royal Barbados Police Force. I was surprised by some of what I read and came to the opinion that the Masons are a multi-layered hierarchy akin to a gentleman’s club at the entry levels, but with some strange and hidden goings on at the higher levels, and a history of leadership and influence in governments around the world. I once saw a piece on Masonic symbols and symbolism evident in the design and construction of Washington, DC and it really impressed me. I can’t remember if that particular article was at Keltruth blog, but I’m sure someone will find it and post it as a comment on this article.

Ian Bourne at The Bajan Reporter also reported on the supposed connections between Rihanna and Freemasonry, and the Masonic symbolism in her music and videos. (I can’t find the link but if Ian or someone wants to post it I’ll update this article.)

What do you think folks… Bajan Freemasons: dupes? Satan worshipers? misunderstood? Better than seven hundred people at the Sanctuary Empowerment Centre think they know the answer…

‘Jordan also explained that most members in Barbados only rose to the position of master and were therefore unaware of the satanic elements of masonic lodges, whose stated tenets were brotherly love, relief and truth.

Only those in the higher echelons of the lodges, from the 31st to 33rd degree, were aware that satanic worship was at the core of their rituals and that Lucifer was worshipped as the Great Architect of the Universe, he added. “They [masonic lodges] serve the same master: the Father of All Lights, Satan . . . . The rites seek to parallel much of what is in the Bible,” he told enthralled listeners.

Read the full story at Caribbean360.com Freemasonry renounced by hundreds of Barbadians

91 Comments

Filed under Barbados, Religion

91 responses to “Do Freemasons worship Satan as the “Great Architect of the Universe”? Tony Jordan says so and many Barbadians agree

  1. gee

    Illuminati new world order devils diciples.

  2. victor

    People in general find freemasonry worrying and scary because it is a sect which includes many, all men really, and excludes everybody else. It’s basically a boys’ club with elaborate rituals they all enjoy with gusto. They have weird outfits and signals, handshakes etc. At the end of the day it is just businessmen helping each other. In some ways it is wrong because you have to swear that you will help others of your sect above anybody else. So a doctor who swears by the Hippocratic Oath to look after all, might be obliged to concentrate on a fellow masonic member instead of just an ordinary person in need. In business you might have to make an unfair decision in which logic and fairness would normally influence your judgement. You are bound to a code where you basically exclude anyone not in the “club”. And if you do not follow the rules, you are dumped, sometimes with bad consequences, such as no membership of the golf club, nobody shops at your shop anymore, people withdraw their accounts from your bank. The punishments are wide-ranging, affecting men at all levels of society.
    Notoriously, police and lawyers, bankers and accountants are nearly all invited to be members; those very people we need when problems arise in our daily lives. There’s an unpleasant background going on which excludes women.
    I say let the boys have their clubs and sects if they want to but if the people are working in the public sector, paid by the taxpayer, they must announce their allegiance to the Masons so the rest of us know where we stand.

    As far as Satanism is concerned that is a nonsense. These deluded men are not worshiping satan, just their own “amour propre”, vanity.
    The freemasons will always survive because the society they have created really works; people helping each other in business. The nasty side of it is how they gang up to exclude anybody not belonging to the sect. It wouldn’t be fair to ban them, that would be unjust but it might be about time to have a TV documentary about them! I’d enjoy that!

    The Freemasons

  3. robert ross

    @ Victor

    The difficulty with this piece is that if you’re not a freemason so much of what is said is conjecture and that if you are, you can’t say. But I thought your piece made a lot of sense and the right note of caution.

  4. Dessalines

    Quote: “But are these ordinary folks being duped? Are they being tricked into worshiping ‘The Old One’ as Auntie Moses would say”

    Very good question Mr Jordan. Now lets see if we can widen the net to include all cults and religions particularly Christiantiy. Are we being duped into worship?

  5. Mark Fenty

    Fact: Prince Hall founded the Black- Freemason in United States of
    America. Prince Hall was born in Barbados in the 1700s to a European father, and an African- European mother, that’s all I know on the subject of Freemasonry. I discovered this information several years ago researching Barbadians of international reputation.

  6. Mark Fenty

    I’ve forgotten that not to long ago, I saw a documentary on Freemasonry chronicling, if I’m not mistaking, but I stand corrected, the earlier presidents
    of the United States. This documentary focus fundamentally on Benjamin Franklin and the money he and the members of his Freemasonry organization contributed in support of the War of Independence. Amount those members were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Sir. Alexander Hamilton.

  7. Moneybrain

    Why do the FMs insist on people BELIEVING in God regardless of religion?
    Could it be that it is much tougher to indoctrinate “NON believers”, Skeptics, Cynics, people that can think for themselves etc?

    If you have high confidence in your own abilities why would you join any organisation where there is so much hidden BUT where you are asked to just follow instructions BLINDLY?

    Have you ever attended a funeral where the FMs are involved and see them perform their “MUMBOJUMBO”? I have, when my nephew died at age 34. My Grandfather was supposedly a member and he died way back in 1922 leaving many kids who the FMs helped to feed. My uncle on the other side of my family was also a member, he never mentioned anything to me about it or advised me to investigate for potential membership, why? Maybe he knew I would need tons of questions answered upfront before I swear any oaths!

    All religions/ cults/etc must be questioned for the simple reason that they are/ were humans involved and many humans have the propensity to corrupt any aspect of life. Did the religous leaders in approximately 400AD NOT have serious biases when they met at Nicea? Would they have ever dreamed of including females in the Priesthood? What was the effect of cultural biases?

  8. Mark Fenty

    I figure I’ll let you in on a small piece of esoteric historical Americana.

  9. Mark Fenty

    Moneybrian how does one gain wisdom, and knowledge, from oneself? I don’t quite understand where you’re coming from Sir?

  10. Mark Fenty

    @MoneyBrian
    Let me ask you this simple question, since you don’t prescribed to the concept of a metaphysical God. Moneybrain where does your sense of morality comes from, since there is no need for God?

  11. Mark Fenty

    Could you Please answer the question Sir!

  12. Mark Fenty

    I don’t need a long drawn out gobbledygook, just a simple answer to my question.

  13. Mark Fenty

    Sir let’s engage here in some philosophical dialectics, or scientific reasoning in order to shed some light on this very important question.

  14. Mark Fenty

    I can see quite clearly now that you need to grow a pair of “Balls” my friend.

  15. robert ross

    @ Mark

    You’re getting aggressive…lol……actually I’m sure, since MB can think for himself, he is well enough endowed…err….sorry MB. Ditto Dessalines.

  16. Moneybrain

    @Mark Fenty
    Unlike some here, I actually have a career to pursue and it makes no sense for you to assume that I fear any question that you can conceive.

    Where did I say that there is no God? Is that answer short enough for you?

  17. millertheanunnaki

    Senator Durant, the one calling himself “Reverend”, must be exceedingly careful in his reprobation of Free-Masonry and its practitioners. As a government appointed senator and a useful DLP party supporter and vote deliverer he is very aware that many instrumental persons in his party’s hierarchy, even the level of Cabinet, are ‘”ordinary” members of Masonic lodges. Even if the neophytes or johnnies-come-lately- like Jones the minister who is responsible for students’ enlightenment- wear their showoff membership badges such as rings inappropriately. The Senator would do well to appreciate that most members of Masonic lodges serve the same purpose as those gullible lot who attend his church services. The more financial members are recruited the stronger the organization. The religious CEO should bear this in mind when playing to the gallery filled with simple people assembled in his money making circus called his church to worship a false figure called Jesus. Freemasonry is just another of the many break away cult from mainstream Roman Catholicism. Freemasonry is based on pagan principles and practices that were established long before the RC church but deemed as anathema to the mass conversion of the gullible masses and the church’s financial and political growth and success. Hence the need, like the Knights Templar and the Rosicrucian Order to operate under a cloak of secrecy.
    Little spiritual children like the goodly Senator should not play with sharp-edged tools.

  18. kimesha

    Let those without sin cast the first stone. Leave well enough alone. What is it to you? To each his own! Those that have ears to hear, let them listen.

  19. Knight of the Long Knives

    Exactly Kimesha. I belong to a masonic order (not freemasons) each man is free to chose what he believes in. You will never see a mason proselytizing. To some people the banal material world is not enough. If you are happy with what you are told at church then so be it. Some of us are not.

  20. Knight of the Long Knives

    Also Rihanna’s alleged use of symbols associated with masonry are not indicative of masonic membership at all. Most of these symbols are ancient, including several christian symbols which pre-date the time of Jesus Christ by thousands of years. How many know that the swastika is an ancient form of a cross found in several ancient Hindu writings.

  21. I believe that many questions can be answered if you will take a few moments to read our free online book on the Masonic Order. I was a Master Mason and a member of 2 lodges. This book is based upon my story and contains details on the various degrees of Freemasonry. It can be found at: http://www.masonicfacts.com. Upon accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, I had a decision to make. I left the Masonic Lodge and Shrine. My father refused to speak with me for two years along with all of my “masonic brothers”. The book is free and a good number of men have left the Masonic Order after reading this book. Please read it and send the link to your family members, or associates that are Masons, or Shriners. It could well change their lives. Dr. Tom Hudson

  22. Noddy

    ”’Masonry as something less than a religion, but more than an ordinary community group ”’

    Then why have a Masonic Bible, in some parts referencing Baphomet (even the drawing of the ManGoat)?

    As for those who say it is only men, no the sisters are part of the order of the Eastern Star.

    And there are indications that to get certain positions, being a Freemason does help.

  23. Mark Fenty

    Moneybrian you have answer the question yet!

  24. Mark fenty

    @Moneybrian
    I really love the way you continue to usurped your individual judgnment. And your one fit all mentality in your attempt to analysize some of us here . Listen to your voice though,it is intricately interfused, and obviously impregnanted with sheer psychological- egoism. I honestly hope that you do not misconstrued what I have said thus far as an attempt to begrudge your success, because I’ll be the first one to say without equivocation, more power to you. But have you given any thought at all to the fact that we are still experiencing a world- wide economic- crisis of immeasurable consequences? And many are idle not of their own doing, but by the vicissitudes with life sometimes unfolds in our presents.

  25. Mark fenty

    @MoneyBrain
    Just to touch briefly on one of your point regarding the priesthood. God saw it fit that Deborah and a few more women in the Old- Testament should governing Israel at a time when men had failed to accept they responsibility. It is well noted that Queen Isabella a reining monarch of
    Spain financed Christopher Columbus voyage in search of the new- world, Queen Victoria of England reined for 70 years. So you see, throughout history women has held important positions of influence, and power. (And this is just a few of the many women who have occupied these positions of power and influence).

    Moneybrain, if you have studied history, especially Western history with any depth, then you would understand that women enjoyed fluctuating status from biblical-times to the present era. One could easy argue that at the Counsel-Nicene the Bishops who decided on the (Doctrine of the Trinity) were guided by the (New Testament Doctrine). At issue weren’t role of women in the church leadership as you assumed, that question had already been settled by Saint Paul. But at issue was the belief regarding whether God the Father, Son, and Holy- Spirit, God were separate from the Son, and the Holy –Spirit. So the conflict was between the doctrine of Arianism and the Trinity not women as you so falsely assumed.
    I

  26. Mark fenty

    Now! Please don’t take my words manipulate them in an effort to discredit what I’m about to convey here. Because I’ll be the first to defend the concept of self- determination at all cost. But when we examine at the Hebrew Scriptures we see quite clearly that God has prescribed fundamentally different roles for Male and Female. So why is it difficult for some of us to accept the view that God created man exclusively to govern his Church?

  27. Mark fenty

    Now! Please don’t take my words manipulate them in an effort to discredit what I’m about to convey here. Because I’ll be the first to defend the concept of self- determination at all cost, but when we examine the Hebrew Scripture I see quite clearly that God prescribed fundamentally different roles for Male and Female. So why is it some difficult to accept the view that God created man exclusively to govern his Church?

  28. shanoonbee

    masons are not free there gonna rot in hell

  29. Diane

    Freemasons are pagans in their hearts, even those members who are Christians in name only. Paganism always creates a false and shadow form in opposition to Christianity. Also Ben Franklin was an active member of the Hellfire club in Europe which centered around orgies and drunkenness. He was a Christian in name only when it suited him but his actions speak louder than words. No wonder it’s a secret society, also an amoral one.

  30. millertheanunnaki

    @Diane June 28, 2012 at 7:26 pm
    “Paganism always creates a false and shadow form in opposition to Christianity.”

    Check the history of Christianity and you will find out is pagan from whom.
    Christian “holy” days are all pagan in origin especially Xmas and Easter.
    And please do not reply with any personal attacks but with arguments to the contrary.

  31. Cristy

    almost all of your presidents have been Freemasons and or have been part of the Skull and Bones

  32. Diane

    Miller-freemasonry is amoral and pagan. It functions solely to promote the wordly benefits of only it’s own membership and has no definition of God except nature. We Christians know that God created nature and is not subject to it . Christ resurrection proves that although He took on human nature He was not bound by it because He is also divine. Jesus Christ reigns!

  33. millertheanunnaki

    @ Diane June 28, 2012 at 10:01 pm
    “Christ resurrection proves that although He took on human nature He was not bound by it because He is also divine. Jesus Christ reigns!”

    Diane please read what past CEO’s of your “Christian” business organization had to say about your Yeshua Ben Joseph:
    “The Christian Religion: Two Popes even admitted that Christ was a Fable.”
    Pope Leo X
    “How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors.” Pope Leo X, died 1521.
    Later Pope Paul III expressed similar sentiments, saying that there was no valid document to demonstrate the existence of Christ. He confessed that “Jesus never existed”, adding that he was “no other than the sun, adored in its Mithraic sect…”
    In regards to the “Mithraic sect..” Christianity is a copycat religion, invented by Constantine, for political purposes, based upon that myth, of Mithra (Mithras) son of a god, born of a virgin on December 25th.
    “If I tell you to accept an untrue myth as true, I am asking you to believe a LIE, no matter how much you may adore the untrue myth.”
    The divinity of Jesus is a myth and a lie!

  34. Anonymous

    You cannot serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other. Jesus Christ or the great architect. A former 33rd degree mason speaks out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8WT6UsqK-0

  35. John

    You cannot serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other. Jesus Christ or the great architect. Listen to this 33rd degree mason. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8WT6UsqK-0

  36. Anita

    For those who want to know more about Freemasonry, check out John Salza’s website. He is a Roman Catholic who was a Mason years ago and he has exposed, in his books, that Freemasonry is definitely satanic. In the 33rd degree they take an oath to the evil one, but are sworn to secrecy concerning it..His site is http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com

  37. Michael

    I am a former Police Officer here in the USA Comm of MA…..many Police Officer’s, Court Officer’s, Deputy Sheriff’s are Mason’s or Shiner’s…it is all part of the system and approach to the NWO…One County Sheriff…who was a Mason claimed he was a good Catholic…He was on school boards….alcohol licensing boards, Boys and Girls Club .. CYC… hospital and bank boards….he was also suspected of being a pedophile….it was covered up no less and he was allowed to retire quietly and collect his “Good Ole Boy State Pension….”

  38. Mark Fenty

    Michael I hear what you’re saying, but what’s your point? Are you suggesting that just because someone professes to be a Christian, or a Mason for that matter,that somehow they are without Sin?

  39. Mark Fenty

    Michael you’re sadly mistake if you think for a moment that being a member of the Free- mason’s organization is part of some New- World- Order. The Founding-Fathers of the United States of America has always been
    members of the Free- mason’s organization. Haven’t you heard about the secret society that many of America’s presidents have been closely associated with? Well, what do you think that secret- society is really called?

  40. Mark Fenty

    I’m a former military man here in America also. And I knew a great number of Soldiers who has been active- members of the Freemasonry organization. But I would have to be insane to surmised that they
    membership in this organization in some shape, or form constitutes some New- World- Order.

  41. Mark Fenty

    You know! Whether we accept it or reject it, America is the kind of place where one is free to worship Satan openly. (Now that seems to be the New- World- Order in full manifestation, don’t you think Michael? ) And this right is founded in the Establishment clause of the Constitution, of the First Amendment which states that, “Congress shall make not Laws respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.

  42. ashley

    Check out http://www.vigilantcitizen.com. Everything he posts is related to the Illuminati and the music and media side of it all. Also geographical sites. AWESOME SITE!!!!

  43. millertheanunnaki

    @ Mark Fenty June 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Have you ever considered- out of pure intellectual curiosity- Who or what made Satan or the so-called devil?
    If your Biblical god is that omnipotent then the existence of Satan must have been brought into being by the same god’s power. Think about that!
    To use a pun: The devil is a necessary “evil” ordained by your Yahweh to keep mankind from being bored to eternal life.

  44. robert ross

    Will we ever stop thinking of ‘God’ as an old man up in the sky?
    Supposing Jesus was not a ‘chip off the old block’. Would that mean he is not relevant to us?
    Is being a ‘Christian’ to say ‘I am a follower of Jesus’? Or must there be something more?

  45. rastaman

    Check out the comments on Rihanna “Umbrella” and the link to ILLUMINATI on you tube.

  46. Mark Fenty

    As I’ve said numerous times my friend, and this it what I firmly believe. Now, I’m not asking anyone to accept my way of thinking, nor my religious point of view. Because as I have said much earlier, I’m in no position to dictates what someone should or shouldn’t do with the life the God entrusted to them.

    But when the Almighty God created the First- Man Adam, and made him ruler over his universe. He also planed within him Freewill/ Self- determination, which in essence means the liberty to accept God, will, or follow the dictates of his own conscience.

    Now, to answer your question based on a pure biblical foundation. In Isaiah 45: 7 God states unequivocally that, “I form the light, and created: I make peace, and created evil: I the Lord do all these things.” No let’s be clear on this point I’m not asking you to accept the biblical interpretation, because I also firmly believe that every man and woman has the right to live they lives as they see fit. But what I do believe is this if one takes the path that is contrary to what God has preordained there are serous consequences.

    Now! Christianity happens to be one religious belief among the how many hundred of belief in our modern world today. But it is a religious belief that I have grounded my life on after considerable research, and some measure of contemplation. Hear me on this one, I’m in no position to enforce my private religious convictions on anyone, irrespective of how immoral I think he or she is leading their life.

  47. millertheanunnaki

    @Mark Fenty June 30, 2012 at 2:00 pm
    “But when the Almighty God created the First- Man Adam, and made him ruler over his universe.”

    So Adam (not Eve) was ruler over the many life forms that were created on the billions of planets in the millions of galaxies?
    Adam, my friend, is a mythical figure in varying cultures with a different name. He, like Noah, never existed as a real human being; only in Hebrew mythology and folklore copied from other Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures.

  48. rastaman

    @millertheanunnaki: So the BIBLE is mythololgy?

  49. millertheanunnaki

    @rastaman June 30, 2012 at 8:51 pm
    “millertheanunnaki: So the BIBLE is mythololgy?”

    Yes! Just Hebrew legend and folklore only copied primarily from the Sumerians (latter Babylonians) Egyptians and Greek cultural fables, legends and myths. If you believe in the Story of the flood and Noah you would believe in the Red Riding Hood story or the literal interpretation of Aesop’s fables.

  50. robert ross

    As much as I agree with much of what Miller says, I do not accept that it is ALL mythology. There is ‘history’ in the OT though embellished with litle stories. The NT is, in large measure, factual – Paul’s Letters and the missionary journeys, eg, are factual. The Gospels contradict themselves in places (as also do Acts and the Letters) and so where that takes place my view is that those parts should be rejected (eg the competing genealogies). The obviously fanciful parts of Jesus’ life – virgin conception, birth, some ‘miracles’, resurrection – rejection; and many of the sayings – as many scholars agree: see the so-called “Jesus Seminar”. The Gospel of Thomas I do not think is as ‘late’ as some do (2nd century) and is as much likely to be authentic as many of the reported sayings in the (authentic) Gospels. A Franciscan priest on EWTN once applauded the death of one of the ‘leaders’ of the Seminar on the ground that the world had been ridden of a heretic who had got his early deserts at the hands of a just God.

    How old are you Miller? LOL

    To put it another way: the Bible is a work of devotion not of history. Even myths contain a truth value, eg with the ‘Fall’ story about the nature of the human condition, and with Job the nature of divine providence.

  51. millertheanunnaki

    @ robert ross July 1, 2012 at 4:36 pm
    “There is ‘history’ in the OT though embellished with little stories. The NT is, in large measure, factual – Paul’s Letters and the missionary journeys, eg, are factual’

    I accept that the broad outline of the Bible is set within an historical context.
    A history based on Hebrew royal families, high priests, prophets, writers (poets) and rebels. Just like the history of other people with documented cultures, especially those from the Mediterranean basin and initially from the Tigris and Euphrates fertile plains.

    All the embellishments depicting the main characters divine status and power, special relationship with some supreme god or gods have similar sources and narratives.
    The NT has indeed been doctored to reflect a wider influence with some Vedic input.

    The first few stories in the book of Genesis are based on old Sumerian writings.
    As you pointed out, the stories of the immaculate conception, virgin birth and crucifixion of the only ‘son of god’ and his ascent to heaven are all based pagan and astrological myths.
    Yeshua ben Joseph from the Royal House of David (blue blood) might have been a real historical figure around the time of the Roman occupation of Israel and modern day Palestine but he certainly was not the son Yahweh. This pseudo Jewish Apollo with his royal lineage might have been a Zealot pretender to the throne of Israel; a claim that was anathema to the republican Romans and with serious political implications that would have resulted in crucifixion even if his pregnant wife the Magdalene and his children sought political asylum in Southern Gaul.

    That Robert,old boy, will tell you how young I am in light years! (ROFLMO!!!)

  52. robert ross

    @ Miller

    On the question of your age – as you will probably realise my schooling taught me to be cautious…….but yes I’ll go along with light years.

  53. Dessalines

    @ Ross
    You claim that some things should be omitted from the NT like the fanciful stuff. Well Thomas Jefferson (3rd US presidant) did re write the Bible doing just that leaving the words of Jesus (if he existed) in a book called “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth”. Jefferson opined that the ‘fancyful’ stuff like the miracles and rituals were added by the church leaders in order to create an industry of which they were the CEOs.
    My contention witht the this is that the Bible is touted as the infallible word of God (who is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient) passed on through his messengers on earth. How can some parts be embraced and some rejected. How is the comman man/woman who uses the Bible as a spiritual source of reference to know the difference.
    Should not we reject the entire thing out of hand in this case?

  54. Mark fenty

    @Miller

    My friend if that’s what you believe, then who I’m I to disagree with your perspective. But, it is rather senseless I believe, to engage in fruitless
    dialogue to prove you wrong. Of course, to the secular- mind the concept of Adam and Eve would appear to be a religious constructed purely grounded on a metaphysical premise. Nonetheless, it is meaningless to argue the fact that there is ample evidence in our cosmos to validate the existence of Jehovah-God. To the naturalized human intellect the concept of the ontological -God appears too extraneous, because many of us are taught to engage our world through the objectified reality. Furthermore,It is quite acceptable for some of us to embrace the concept of Biological – Evolution; because it is applicable to the way in which we have been taught to engage our world through the empirical medium. But we nonetheless have a tendency to view with suspicion concepts which are aliened to our prescribed way of thinking.
    All in all, we must be mindful of the fact that we do not confined our world to narrowly to the moral, intellectual, and divine prescriptions that society has designed for many of us. Now I would argue that we can use “reason” rather “scientific- materialism” to prove that some great force beyond man has been responsible for our present existence.

  55. millertheanunnaki

    @ Mark fenty July 2, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    “Now I would argue that we can use “reason” rather “scientific- materialism” to prove that some great force beyond man has been responsible for our present existence.”

    Based on that premise then it is reasonable to conclude that the same “great force beyond human man” could be responsible for the creation by whatever means of other non-Earth life forms on other planets in our galaxy and beyond. There might just have been other Adam and Eve models replicated in the universe along with similar menageries of animals as mentioned in the book of Genesis.
    Problem, here though, is that we humans on this planet might just not be the superior or favourite creations of this ‘Great Force’.

  56. Mark fenty

    @Miller
    I believe a world without the God is a world grounded on the false premise of Evolution. Now, as far as the human intellect has taken us thus far, we still haven’t been able through Biological- Evolution Geological- Evolution and Astronomical- Evolution proved conclusively that the concept of God is
    a myth. Now the concept of evolution cannot be full comprehended, unless we understand these three medium which constitute Evolutionism, Biological, Geological, Astronomical. Charles Darwin based most of his work on Biological evolution.

  57. Mark fenty

    Miller, would I be right to assume that you’re an Atheist?

  58. Mark fenty

    Now if you believe that the concept of the metaphysical God is a drama purely constructed in the mind of the misguided man. Then let me ask you this question, where does your concept of right and wrong derived its existence, since God appear to be a myth as you have said above?

  59. Mark fenty

    His is been derived from the concept of ethical – humanism?

  60. millertheanunnaki

    @Mark fenty July 2, 2012 at 5:13 pm
    “I believe a world without the God is a world grounded on the false premise of Evolution. ”
    @ Mark fenty July 2, 2012 at 5:25 pm
    “Now if you believe that the concept of the metaphysical God is a drama purely constructed in the mind of the misguided man”.

    Your arguments are strictly Gaia or Earth centered. You purposely avoid the matter that life in whatever form could (and I would go so far as to say DOES) exist in many parts of our galaxy and others.
    In my view what you call “God” is really “TIME”. A concept way beyond simple understanding or discussion.
    Mankind’s god is our closest star that allowed monkey man to evolve to a point at which he was then genetically modified by the Elohim or extraterrestrials to refine his genome above that of the beast. Adam was the mythical prototype of genetically engineered modern man and instilled with the ability to draw, to develop language and culture including agriculture, to make sophisticated tools and invent nature-simulated technologies, domesticate animals, to engage in war and- more up your street- to express the need to practice religion or the recognition and adoration of some extraterrestrial control. These advances were achieved through the technological gene instilled in humans by the “those who came from the heavens (skies)”.

    If you refuse to accept that Evolution is responsible for the approx. 98% physiological genetic make up of humans we share with apes, then how do you explain the various racial groups that exist among the human race?
    To put in a different way, answer this simplistic way question: If Adam and Eve were white how come there are blacks, Indians, Chinese and varying ethnic groups and sub-groups?

    And do not talk about Cain killing Abel and marrying a woman that had to be his sister who is not mentioned in the fable.

    Morality is an evolutionary technique that is needed for the human species to survive. Like sexual reproduction it ensures that selfish gene is exploited for the existence and betterment of the majority in the population; just like an ant colony. This argument needs further debate to truly appreciate the role of this elusive characteristic shared by humans.

  61. Mark Fenty

    @Miller
    If Adam and Eve were white how comes there are blacks, Indians, Chinese, and varying ethnic groups and sub-groups?

    I know that you’re an intelligent man. Therefore, I fail to accept the view that you believe everything you have read, or have heard. Now, quite plainly, the Hebrew- Scriptures makes no mention of racial hierarchy,as you seem to suggest in your writing. My friend one does not have to look hard to discover the fact that before Chattel- Slavery was introduced into the America’s. There was no literature written which was intended to vitiated and animalized the man of Africa- descent, this all happen after the introduction of the evil institution of slavery. Now, I’ll try to answer your question with respect to the diversity we see today in the human species. Miller,there is a hypothetical- construct with suggest that climate has had a lot to do the physiological differences that is evidence in the human -race today.

  62. Mark Fenty

    Lets’ adhere to the principle of intellectual freedom here; remember now, this is a fundamental human right.

  63. millertheanunnaki

    @ Mark Fenty July 3, 2012 at 9:13 pm
    “Miller, there is a hypothetical- construct with suggest that climate has had a lot to do the physiological differences that is evidence in the human -race today.”

    I was just using a hypothetical example to get you to appreciate that the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is a mythical explanation of the origin of man without scientific basis but one based on a child-like narrative. If I had framed the hypothesis where Adam was Black (more hypothetically sound and Eve was white or Japanese from the land of the Rising Sun would it have made a difference?

    The mere fact that you have posited that “Climate” has a lot to do with physiological differences among human certainly lends greater credence to the theory of Evolution. Adaptation and genetic mutation are sine qua non for species survival in their evolutionary process. You could not want a stronger case of Evolution instead of the myth of Noah’s three sons and their wives.

    Hence, Mark, the presence of the white man and the polar bear on this planet. Two sub-species adapting over time to colder and harsher conditions.
    I am sure that the polar bear could not have been present in the little boat the mythical Noah built to accommodate the two ancestors of all living creatures today. Leaves one to wonder about the dinosaur, the Komodo dragon or even the fabled unicorn! N’est-ce pas?

  64. robert ross

    @ Dessalines

    The argument is that you can’t pick-an-mix. The fundamentalist Christians say it. The RC Church has said it but takes account also of tradition and authority – which is self-serving of course.. Having said that, I have heard priests on EWTN stick to the ‘take-it-all’ line.

    It follows, as you say, that IF the Bible is God’s infallible ‘Word’ it must be inerrant. There are so many things in the Bible that are just plain silly – a creation’ story in which man was made 4000 years ago is one….and in any event there are two creation myths so which do you choose? I don’t need to go through all that.

    What to do? Well many, even most, have not reached the stage of confronting the problem. The Anglican Church here steers away from it all and so though the issue may well trouble some the idea of the after-life is so appealing they wouldn’t want all that coziness upset. I keep hearing ‘You mustn’t upset people’…to which I say ‘Quite…we wouldn’t want them to think would we?’ For myself I sometimes think that an exercise in book burning would be a good thing if only to shock people into waking up. But then, as I say, there are purple passages which do reach to the deep heart’s core in so far as they impact on our religiousness rather than religion-imperatives and all the attendant concepts like ‘God said’. And then there are the Gospels. I wouldn’t want to be without those despite their quirkiness.

  65. Mark Fenty

    @Miller
    It seems quite clear that we are oscillating back and forth with an argument,
    which obviously exceeds our intellectual capacities.
    Nevertheless, I respect your right to advance your own theory with respect to the origin of mankind.Because if you believe that the Idea of God is a fairytale intricately interlaced to deceive man, then who I’m I to say that you haven’t a right to think in these terms. But one thing that is clear to me, my personal experience tells me that there is a Higher- power that is responsible somehow for the existence of our Cosmos. Now, even the inflexible laws of Nature speak quite conspicuously to the existence of a higher order in operation in our universe, but some fail to give credence to this possibility.

    Furthermore, the argument against God’s existence is grounded on the premise that God is purely metaphysical and cannot be view through the empirical medium. But the same argument can be advance with respect to the Human- Mind. The Human- mind can be describe as non-material in nature , but yet you know as well as I do that the mind can accumulate, record, and recapitulates data. Yet we can’t see or touch the mind, but it nonetheless exist metaphysical because it gives reason and pure to our existence as human beings. Well, God operates on the same principle to some existence; we don’t have to see him with the human lens in order to prove that his existence is real. God operates in the spirit realm which is rather aliened to our way of understanding our universe. You have heard the perennial dictum which goes a little something like this, “Don’t believe what your eyes are telling you, because all there show are limitations, look with your understanding.”

    Moreover, God communicates to man through the intuitive conscience and this whole concept seems rather inconceivable to those who fail to accept this view. It is quite conceivable to accept the theory of the Big- Bang and the idea of an expanding universe, but rather disingenuous I believe, in explain the concept of the universe originate from a state of nothingness. I know you have heard the philosophical platitude that, “If there is a watch then there must be a watch maker”. In essence, through empirical data one could easily argue that it is impossible the proved the starting point of our universe,and the concept of God’s beginning.

  66. Mark Fenty

    Why is necessary for us to use the intrument of Race as a barometer to determine the validity of God existence? Miller,the man who fix his aim on Race views everything through this medium. Now it can be argued that Mankind was at his purest state when God created the universe. So therefore, when one examine the Hebrew- Scripture one discover that is was quite acceptable for brother and sister to copulate during that period. In any even, I’ve enunciated quite clearly that Abraham had married his haft- sister Sahara on his father’s side, and this was obviously sanction by God. Finally, as I have argued above thus far, that climate and genetics is somehow responsible for the diversity that we are witnessing into day world. But who knows, this is merely hypothetical speculation predicated upon haft-baked theories?

  67. Mark Fenty

    @Miller
    I know that I haven’t the answers to some of the fundamental questions which seem to perplex the human intellect, as far the phenomenon of Jehovah- God goes. But we can all agree on this point. And that is, there had to be a beginning to every Existence above under and below the Heavens.

    In any instance, it seems like what man does not really understands, he has a tendency relegated to medium Mythology. We can all agree on this one fact, that there are some things Science and Religion cannot explain. But that doesn’t mean there are untrue. We just have ascertained the kind of knowledge to explain these elusive phenomenons yet. Some of what was held as truths in Socrates, Plato’s, and Aristotle’s epoch, has now been view as utter rubbish since the further evolution of Science and Religion.

    Now, as one who finds comfort in the Christian- religion, I truly believe that there are some things which escape our understanding right now. Can only be answer when we all stand before the judgment sit of Christ?

  68. Mark Fenty

    @Miller
    In analyzing other opinions, we must be circumspect with respect to waving our unilateral opinion as absolute truth. It has been said time and time again, “That ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever.” In any case, correct me if I’m wrong. Because it seems like the point of view of the modern-voice is grounded in: narrow-mindedness, intellectual- arrogance, conceitedness, and if course the lack of intellectual integrity.

    But there is hope! I believe that we have to be more cognizant of the fact that it becomes an affront to the free flow of ideas. Opinion informed by reason, and comprehensive insight when there is a reckless disregard, couple with insensitivity for the multiplicity of diverse opinion.

    Nonetheless, we shouldn’t be led to believe that we’re here in any shape or from to undermined that opinion of the Antagonist, or that of the Protagonist, in an effort to lend credence our given position. But we must be mindful of the fact that we are here, to exchange ideas, impart knowledge, and to broaden one another insight.

    William James the illustrious and well noted psychologist and philosopher have noted that: “The deepest desire in our human- nature is our willingness to be appreciated.” Deepak Chopra the Indian American Guru has instructed us not to allow the Ego to usurp its three main inducements, “The need for Control, the need to Judge, and the need for Acceptance”. Worse yet, it is one thing to believe that our opinion is the right opinion, quite another to think that our opinion is the only opinion in support or defense of any given issue.

    Clearly, the modern intellectual minds may disagree, but on one point they all will agree, and that is. Each and every one of us in some form or fashion seeks to have our opinion validate by our pairs. But again, in the contemporary social order, there is a belief among men and women. That somehow there is a need to create an atmosphere of cantankerousness between competing forces of opinion, in order to convey our dissimilarity of opinion.

    Furthermore, under the civil influence of reason, I’m somehow persuaded in my mind. That we can look upon divergence of an opinion, as a well refined fertilizer that reshapes, remodels, and redirects our autarchic view of any given issue. Then in the process we might be able to pave the way towards a sense of reason, tolerance, and understanding for our difference of opinion.

  69. kimesha

    Well said Mr Fenty! “Tolerance” ought to be the watchword in this regard.

  70. millertheanunnaki

    @ Mark Fenty July 7, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    I have no issue with your line of argument but I believe they should be more directed at the religious fundamentalists -Christian, Islamic or otherwise.
    My view of what you have said can be expressed as follows:
    “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” ~Buddha

    Now you get where Miller is coming from?

  71. Mark Fenty

    @Miller
    Let me say this much sir! I’ve learned many years ago not to accept any given argument on face -value. I’ve always made it a practice of mine to view comprehensive any given argument that attracts my attention. Many years ago I may add, in a Philosophy class. My professor God Bless her Soul, had challenged me to examine meticulously and critically my Religious, Cultural, and Moral belief. And she had done this in an effort to allow me to test the soundness of these institutions. And thanks to her, I can unequivocally and categorically state without a doubt. That from then on, I held with skepticism much of what I had heard or read, providing of course, that there were sufficient evidence to demonstrate otherwise.

    Now, I am sure that you have heard the dictum, “You hear it, you forget it, you see it, you remembered it, you do it, you understand it.” So with this being said, I’m the kind of individual who makes is my business to challenge ideas, regardless of there soundness and validity. (Giving all credit to my professor of course). Nonetheless,I would hope that those with some sense of intelligence would hopefully test what their read and are told.
    Finally, with respect to my religious belief, I’m not asking anyone to agree with me as far as Christianity is concern. Because I believe that everyone has that right to choose their end. But, I’m absolutely certain that there is a God who is responsible for the creation of our Cosmos. Now one may ask the question, why are you so certain that there is a God? And my response to that question would be, because he has manifested himself to me through the medium of the Holy- Ghost. This seems rather simplicity you may ask? And obviously requires further explanation? And I’ll further response by saying that the Hebrew – Scripture in no uncertain terms, expressively declares that it is impossible for the Secularized- mind to understand Spiritual things and leave it at that .

  72. FrenchyBajan

    @Mark Fenty
    Your last post is brillant !

  73. millertheanunnaki

    @ Mark Fenty July 9, 2012 at 3:48 pm
    “And I’ll further response by saying that the Hebrew – Scripture in no uncertain terms, expressively declares that it is impossible for the Secularized- mind to understand Spiritual things and leave it at that .”

    Yes Mark, very difficult indeed!
    So is it also impossible for the same mind to understand the same Hebrew Scripture that demands and commands he following be done?

    “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
    They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.”

    You are familiar with the piece of Hebrew Scripture or do you want it repeated for the benefit of your admiring student “FrenchyBajan”?

  74. FrenchyBajan

    “admiring student Frenchy Bajan” :)… salut Miller!

  75. 122

    apparently masons, claim they gain power through satan yeah but how is that possible they must chant some next level weird prayers

  76. Thomas

    Nearly all freemasons I’ve met come across as real fuckwits, seem to have trouble carrying any normal discussion, that’s probably because their heads are so full of all the garbage they’re indoctrinated with…I believe they will not allow religion & politics to enter any verbal exchanges they encouter also.

  77. A English freemason

    Its just a club for men to go to eat drink and help where possible each other – thats it plain and simple.

  78. Pl;ease get your facts straight before you make yourself look like an unintelligent, non educated person. SATAN: Sa-Tana; Hebrew, adversary; Yeshuah’s (There was no Jesus) adversary was the Romans conquerors, the Sadducees, the Jewish Sanhedrin,the Pharisee’s and the Zealots.
    The Masons recognize all seven major religions; how many do the other religions recognize,?Lucifer, is probably whom you are referring to; Think: a Latin word in the middle of a Greek and Hebrew translation; Not the devil, etc;. Lux_ light; Ferrer, bringer;bearer;;; Yeshua said I am the bright and morning star; the Light bringer; Message of the God; LUCIFER

  79. All symbolism including masonry is ancient esoteric symbols with a common knowledge, a hidden knowledge and a deeper knowledge designed for the discerning person to figure out to increase ones mental intellect, spiritual understanding and growth and seek further light.
    The parables of Yeshua (Jesus) are just one example. He taught the masses in parables but told his disciples what the meaning was

  80. Everyone loves what you guys tend to be up too. Such clever
    work and reporting! Keep up the good works guys I’ve added you guys to my personal blogroll.

  81. It is interesting to note that over 70% of all protestant preachers are Masons. The Masons were instrumental in the writing of our constitution, because they believe in freedom
    to worship a supreme God, and freedom of the persons to accomplish what they can with what they have been endowed with

  82. Lord Haw-Haw

    David Ames- (Harlequin) is a high ranking Freemason, is that how he manages to carry on unscathed? Just asking the question.

  83. Isn’t it interesting that people talk about and use words without knowing their etymology. Loved the comment about Satanism; BUT the word satan, should be Ha-Satan,, a Hebrew word,: ( שָּׂטָן) meaning adversary, one who opposes, is against something; definitely does not mean devil;
    My favorite; LUCIFER:is Not the Devil.:: Planet Venus in latin Luci- ferro, the light bringer, because the planet proceeds the Sun every morning, Hebrew Halel, and Greek, Phosperous,, all referring to the planet Venus not an evil being. It would be nice if preachers taught the truth

  84. Ask teacher

    What about the question?

  85. What does it have to do with him being A mason? According to the bibles the poor will inherit the earth, does this mean that a believer should refrain from making money to support his family and himself. It is the excessive love of anything that is wrong, big example: ( tongue in cheek) gluttony
    No bible/ religion, (except a few that are basically monastic) or fraternal order
    says that their members should not make money. The masons give approximately 4 million dollars a day to children hospitals and other such organizations; What other civic group, church or organization matches or comes close to them.. I personally do not know Mr, Ames, so I cannot speak as to whether or not his masonic membership ( if he truly is one) helps ar hinders him. So in line with that question, it isn’t right for him to use his connections??? but it is for the politicians that go into office as middle class wage earners and within a few years their earnings are astronomical due to their connections??

  86. The concept of the “Great Architect” entered masonic followings relatively late, and stems from 16th century Rosicrucian concepts of the same name, which came from very early Judeo-Christian texts describing God as the “architect of all things”. This concept was especially taken from Thomas Aquinas, and eventually Calvin and much later (early 20th century) Max Heindal. Originally when co-opted by Freemasons it was seen as a “neutral deity” term that allowed them to have wide appeal to all sects, religious and secular….especially since during centuries of European society the bloodiest religious wars were not between Christian and “heathen”, but rather between Christian and Christian. These wars became so ridiculous and brutal that the response by many was to pay lip service to one Christian sect or another (depending who was running the show that week), but quietly follow an “enlightened” path of recognition of the divine…..not exactly Gnostic, but that description serves as well as any. And, in the world of the time, religious leaders (human, which means of course flawed, often serving their own power and glory rather than the Divine) seized on the concept of “enlightenment”, as well as rites at the time calling for these “secret” societies to seek the “light of wisdom”, and claimed that they served the “Lord of Light” (Lucifer). This was similar in the efforts of some churches to show Satan as the proponent of enlightenment and intellectualism (the serpent encouraging Eve to take the Apple), and showing “rational” thought and scholarship as inherently evil (except when in the hands of God’s “chosen priesthood”), since an ignorant society of far easier to control, regardless of the method of control used.

    And please do not think that my views here need paint me as atheist or similar….more Agnostic, believing that ANY religion on earth is OF earth, and therefor of Man, not God….and it all to easily (and all too often!!) is corrupted to suit Mankind’s purposes…and that many of the religious tenants held today stem from one faction or another trying to discredit competitors.

  87. In these types of discussions I find the depth of ignorance truly mind blowing ,people happy to espouse their opinions as undeniable fact is always amusing. Yes I am a Freemason and member of several lodges, I am also a Rosicrucian, as well as student of Sufism, Buddhism and other Schools of Christian Mysticism … so I know a little bit about the subject.

    Even a casual glance at history can be quite an illuminating experience.Let us take a simple one that so many people love to quote “Lucifer” … Lucifer was always associated with Venus, the morning and evening star depending upon it’s position in the heavens was never associated with the Devil until Milton & his fellow Puritans held sway in the early 1600’s. Even the Devil was largely a creation of the Catholic Church, usurping Druidic, and Pagan folklore and becoming the Catholic Churches justification for killing hundreds of thousands of so called Heretics, innocent women and children, including the Cathars, Abigenes, who followed a different version of Christianity to the Catholic version… (there is little difference between that and the violence between Sunni & Shia, Catholics and Protestant it is ignorant ego’s fighting over who’s god is right.) And please don;t get me started on the thousands of other cultures that have suffered at the hands of organised religions.

    I truly wonder whom the misinformation around the Freemasons and The Rosicrucian’s serves? Whilst everyone yells conspiracy theory and devil worshipers the genuine story of these groups and an opportunity for liberation from what is really a very childlike belief system gets lost … the truth is far more amazing and beautiful, and it is hidden in plain sight in all of the religions when you look beyond the man made dogma.

    To me the biggest issue the church has with these sorts of groups, is that it truly fucks with theres business model. After all what use is an empowered, educated and liberated society when you make your money peddling fear and salvation from some kind of angry deity who will punish you when your dead for not following blindly (to quote a comment further up).

    The other thing I find curious is that why would some of the worlds best and brightest be drawn to such groups, are they truly duped or do they have a deeper understanding of something more….. please ponder that, then take a fresh look with eyes open, beyond the egoic fear of the giant daddy in the sky smiting you…. 😉

    Peace Profound.

  88. Bimlady

    THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD

  89. Bimlady

    This topic was debated in January 21, 2008, under Freemasonary and the Royal Barbados Police Force Should Citizens be Concerned, I copy two articles from ex-Mason for Jesus and posted then March 14,2010. 4:30 please check them out.

  90. If they were X~masons then they didn’t learn enough to be able v to discuss or talk about
    Masonry.
    Why did Yeshua bar Yosef talk in parables? It was secret teachings. Why against maonry since he was supposedly a Master carpenter
    Another branch of masonry,
    Research thouroughly before going against any ideas, supposition can cause extreme errors.