How long have the Jews been in Jerusalem?

4000 Years in 5 Minutes


Filed under Religion

49 responses to “How long have the Jews been in Jerusalem?

  1. Green Monkey

    THE (Israeli) GENERAL’S SON — Israeli Miko Peled

    Miko Peled is a peace activist who dares to say in public what others still choose to deny. Born in Jerusalem in 1961 into a well known Zionist family, his grandfather, Dr. Avraham Katsnelson was a Zionist leader and signer of the Israeli Declaration of Independence. His Father, Matti Peled, was a young officer in the war of 1948 and a general in the war of 1967 when Israel conquered the West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights and Sinai.

    Miko’s unlikely opinions reflect his father’s legacy. General Peled was a war hero turned peacemaker.

    Video at link:

  2. propaganda

    green monkey when will you learn that bfp is not interested in truth fairness balance and those sort of things. for them its about right wing evangelical propaganda and sensationalist diatribe.

  3. Weston

    Why is BFP posting political propaganda which has no relevance to Barbados?

  4. Duh

    DUH Weston. It fits into their right wing evangelical myopic view of the world. Don\’t you know the Moslems are taking over Barbados.

  5. Normu

    Barbados is a nation that God blessed with Christianity and the Bible which specifically appointed the land of Israel for the Jewish people. Zionism was ordained to return Jews after a slaughter of millions, not only in Europe but in the Middle East. To be anti-Zionist is to be without any shame. In the Bible anti-Zionist nations will conspire to destroy Israel, so if you are anti-Zionist and wish to join the crowd, allow me to tell you your future. The anti-Israel crowd will be decimated by God’s Wrath. Zechariah prophesies about the War, as follows:
    “This will be the plague with which God will strike all the peoples that have organized against Jerusalem: Each one’s flesh will melt away while he is standing on his feet, each one’s eyes will melt away in their sockets; and each one’s tongue will melt away in their mouths. It shall be on that day that there will be a great panic from God among them; each one will grab the hand of his fellow, and his hand will be raised up against the hand of his fellow …” (Zechariah 14:2-14).

  6. Straight talk

    You mean the God who throughout the OT books personally, or ordered to be, slaughtered two million non-believers. (oh I forgot, and everyone on earth except Noah and his family).
    With Gods like these to adore, Muslim fundamentalism is a kindergarten, but I can see why following his line of thinking carries an appeal and excuses galore for the Zionists.

  7. just want to know

    Just read John 3: verse 16: For God so loved The World, that He gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life; and continue in the following verses: He came not to condemn the world, but that The World through Him might be saved. We all make choices, we choose what we want to believe, we choose what we want to eat, wear, or even who we socialise with. That’s what God gave us above the rest of the things He made, CHOICE, we choose what we want and where we want to go.

  8. Normu

    Dear Duh, If you think it’s so ridiculous a thought ……

    “The arraignment of four Christian missionaries on criminal charges will get underway today in the 19th Judicial District Court at 16077 Michigan Avenue in Dearborn, Michigan in what has been described as police enforcement of Sharia law in an American city dominated by a large Muslim population.”

    Read the whole story here:

    If you think it can’t happen here, you should look into Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

    “As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

    United States — Muslim 0..6%
    Australia — Muslim 1.5%
    Canada — Muslim 1.9%
    China — Muslim 1.8%
    Italy — Muslim 1.5%
    Norway — Muslim 1.8%

    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.
    This is happening in:

    Denmark — Muslim 2%
    Germany — Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
    Spain — Muslim 4%
    Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

    France — Muslim 8%
    Philippines — 5%
    Sweden — Muslim 5%
    Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8% “

  9. Straight talk

    @ Normu
    Don’t worry about these silly little aberrations , it’s all in the creator’s plan.
    Don’t tell me you’re questioning his omnipotence, and starting to feel a little threatened.
    Oh ye of little faith

  10. Normu

    Dear Propaganda, let me share a little “truth, fairness and balance” for you:

    During 2008 an estimated 1,571 rockets AND 1,531 mortar shells fired from Gaza hit Israel. (6 months of which there was a supposed “truce”)

    Consider Trinidad firing 1 rocket at Barbados far less 1571 – that’s 4 rockets per DAY! – imagine trying to live in those conditions! ADD another 4 mortar shells daily!

    Did you know that a 4-year-old Israeli kindergarten infant has 15 SECONDS to locate the bomb shelter and get there before the school explodes from one of those shells? At that age they can barely tie their own shoe laces, far less have to consider the effects of a falling katyusha rocket! But they know it well!

    And can you tell me what threat a 3-month old baby girl posed that it was necessary to slit her throat while she was asleep? Or to stab a 2-year-old boy in the heart twice while he slept?

    Was the massacre of the Fogel family “fair and balanced” enough for you?

  11. looking to get ban

    normu, you continue to live in your hate filled world dominated by lies and made up stories. i hope for your sake you get some nookie on a regular basis!

  12. Normu

    @Straight talk

    Not feeling threatened or losing faith at all. Simply pointing out what those like yourself (who are so antagonistic to God and Christian faith) will be facing in the next 20 or so years.
    My faith will take me through the valley of the shadow of death – for I do not fear the one who can kill my body, but I have referential respect for the One Who can kill both my body and my soul.

  13. pity

    I pity people like you Normu who live in a tiny myopic world and believe the sort of crap you spout above. You need to get out, get a life. Go and wuk up on some women or men and get drunk. Its crop over season. Carry home someone and have lustful sex the whole night. Damn man. Wake up and live life. Stop believing that evangelical nonsense those pastors have you brainwashed with. You don’t think that the Pastor or Apostle or whatever stupidness he name he self dont be bout de place sexing and misbehavin?

  14. Normu

    myopic AND evangelical …. are those your new words for the week in your Lady Bug reader?
    Maybe you can ask a grown up to help you construct an intelligent comment before you come to play online again.

  15. Normu

    @Looking to get ban
    Please enlighten me as to what lies I’ve told – I’ve quoted wikipedia, the bible and an author. Simply because you are not well read – or disagree – doesn’t make anyone else out to be a liar.
    You and “Pity” seem awfully preoccupied with my sex life – I guess that’s your answer to everything in your world.

  16. Anonymous

    i have been told if you want to hide anything from a bajan put it in a book.

  17. Salahuddin

    Normu, are you a nitwit? 1571 rockets blah blah blah, How many Israelis died from the rockets compared to how many innocent Gazans died from Israeli “defense”?
    If the Jews are the chosen people of God why havent they got the one thing that man treasures most? That is ….peace of mind. You can be the best in everything materialistic but if you dont have inner peace you dont have anything. It amazes me that they claim to be God’s chosen ones when they have been the most disobedient of God’s creation. Why has God sent so many of his prophets to this “obedient” lot? To lead them astray or to guide them on the right path? Look. dont bother replying cos this is one post too many on this non-Bajan site.

    These are the results of this awful war:

    Palestinian victims, according to Gaza medics:
    — 1,205 killed, including:
    — 410 children (under 16)
    — 108 women
    — 113 elderly men
    — 14 medics
    — 4 journalists

    — 5,300 wounded

    Israeli victims, according to medics:

    — 13 killed in combat and rocket attacks, including:
    — 10 soldiers (nine in combat, one in rocket attack)
    — three civilians in rocket attacks
    — dozens wounded

    — 2,500 targets hit by Israeli air force and navy inside Gaza, including:

    — four UN-run schools
    — a compound of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees
    — two media buildings
    — 16 medical centres
    — 16 ambulances

    — 778 rockets and mortars fired by Gaza militants into Israel, with most of the projectiles that landed inside the Jewish state hitting houses, but also hitting several schools and a kindergarten.

    Damage in Gaza: (figures from Palestinian statistics bureau)

    — 475.9 million dollars of damage to infrastructure
    — 500 million dollars in estimated clean-up costs
    — 4,000 residential buildings destroyed
    — 16,000 residential buildings damaged
    — 1,500 commercial facilities damaged, including factories, shops, metal
    — 51 government buildings destroyed, including ministries and police
    — 18 schools and other education buildings
    — 20 mosques destroyed
    — 50 kilometres of roads destroyed.

    AFP reported from Jerusalem.

  18. Normu


    I shouldn’t respond … why? … because you don’t want to hear the truth?

    “Attacks began in 2001. Since then, nearly 4,800 rockets have hit southern Israel, just over 4,000 of them since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in August 2005. The range of the rockets has increased over time. The original Qassam rocket has a range of about 10 km (6 miles) but more advanced rockets, including versions of the old Soviet Grad or Katyusha have hit Israeli targets 40 km (25 miles) from Gaza.[1]
    Some analysts see the attacks as a shift away from reliance on suicide bombing, which was previously Hamas’s main method of attacking Israel, and an adoption of the rocket tactics used by Lebanese militant group Hezbollah.[10]” (Wikipedia – not some “objective”? Palestinian source like you quoted)

    Do you think that among the dead Palestinian statistics, they’ve included the hundreds of Palestinian civilians that Hamas TORTURED & EXECUTED in 2000 because they were suspected of collaborating with Israel??

    Of the women and children under 16 that got killed, how many of them were firing machine guns or throwing molotov cocktails, or were simply being used as human shields by their own HAMAS?

    “A source close to Hamas described the movement’s tactic of launching projectiles from between homes during the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict: “They fired rockets in between the houses and covered the alleys with sheets so they could set the rockets up in five minutes without the planes seeing them. The moment they fired, they escaped, and they are very quick.” Videos released by Hamas in 2011 show Qassam rockets being fired from residential areas and mosques. According to Yedioth Aharonoth journalist Elior Levy, “Gaza terror cells choose to fire from urban areas knowing that the Israel Defense Forces refrain from intercepting them for fear of hurting civilians. The killing of civilians in Gaza also serves the terrorists’ purposes who claim Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza.” (Wikipedia – again not some questionable “Palestinian” source)

    The Israelis have learned the hard way how to build bomb shelters that are effective and so minimizes casualties:

    “The state of Israel requires all buildings to have bomb shelters and all homes possess these safety measures. They are usually employed as game rooms so that the children will be comfortable to enter them at a time of need, and will not be frightened” (Wikipedia)

    When you add TRUTH to your statistics, a whole new picture emerges.


    PS – name calling is a little childish, don’t you think?

  19. Just passing thru

    Here are the more realistic figures of Israeli victims of Palestinian terror:
    (Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs)

    2000 – present – 1204 Israelis killed
    2000-2007 – 542 Israelis killed in 140 suicide bombings
    2001-2007 – 8342 wounded

    And these figures don’t include the 9 IDF soldiers spoken of by Salahuddin.

  20. Dessalines

    @ Normu you really need to get outside and take in some fresh air. The bible is now a reputable source? Are you serious. The bible is a faith based book, not fact based. It cannot be used as a reference source any more than a Superman comic book. None of the stories can be independently verified and faith (plus some degree of superstition) is necessary for it to be taken seriously. Most of the bible authors have not been proven to have existed historically (except for Paul) Jesus included, and most of the stories are a blend of Egyptian and Babylonian mythology give or take the gang rapes and homicidal chapters. The Jews are not the first, nor will they be the last to claim God spoke to them (albeit they are the only ones he gave land to) Jim Jones, David Karesh etc all had a direct line to God and he told them to kill all their/his followers. The bible (and religion in general) has been the most divisive and destructive book/philosophy in human civilization. It’s full time we abandon it and the negative superstitious trappings along with it.

  21. Normu

    I am very touched by all the concern for my sex life and now my physical health – really, thank you!

    Dessalines, I was accused by “Looking to get ban” of telling lies. I simply stated the fact that I had quoted from wikipedia, the bible (1 short verse) and an author. Most people would understand that I was inviting said “Looking to get ban” to point out the lies I had told from within those quotes. To suggest that I said that the bible is a “reputable source” is to put words in my mouth – since I quoted no “facts” from the bible but only a prophecy yet unfulfilled. I would not attempt to use the bible for historical “land giving” or anything else as I am fully aware that people who are antagonistic to God and faith aren’t interested.
    Reading comprehension does not appear to be one of your strong suits.

    As a matter of fact, neither is history apparently, as the historical Jesus can be found in Josephus, and countless references by other historically sound persons including the “Acts of Pilate” – that is of course, if you don’t also doubt the historical Pilate.

    You should really stay in and do some reading, take in some knowledge.

  22. Green Monkey

    The Jesus Forgery: Josephus Untangled
    by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock

    When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported “evidence” of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE. In Josephus’s Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the “Testimonium Flavianum” (“TF”):

    “Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,–a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” (Whitson, 379)

    This surprisingly brief and simplistic passage constitutes the “best proof” of Jesus’s existence in the entire ancient non-Christian library comprising the works of dozens of historians, writers, philosophers, politicians and others who never mentioned the great sage and wonderworker Jesus Christ, even though they lived contemporaneously with or shortly after the Christian savior’s purported advent.

    Despite the best wishes of sincere believers and the erroneous claims of truculent apologists, the Testimonium Flavianum has been demonstrated continually over the centuries to be a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius in the fourth century. So thorough and universal has been this debunking that very few scholars of repute continued to cite the passage after the turn of the 19th century. Indeed, the TF was rarely mentioned, except to note that it was a forgery, and numerous books by a variety of authorities over a period of 200 or so years basically took it for granted that the Testimonium Flavianum in its entirety was spurious, an interpolation and a forgery. As Dr. Gordon Stein relates:

    “…the vast majority of scholars since the early 1800s have said that this quotation is not by Josephus, but rather is a later Christian insertion in his works. In other words, it is a forgery, rejected by scholars.”

  23. Dessalines

    @ Normu I must first thank Green Monkey for putting Josephus in his historical place. I must add that all the so called countless references of historical sound persons you speak of including the Acts of Pilate post date Jesus by at least 4 decades up to hundreds of years and could have used the biblical texts as their source. As Green Monkey pointed out none of these non-christian writers, historians/scribes were contemporaneous.
    As to my reading comprehension, we seem to be on par because nowhere did I suggest I was antagonistic to God or even faith. You are suggesting that if we do not believe in the Jewish God (the god of Abram and Isaac) or have faith in Jewish family history scandals that we are somehow antagonistic towards God and faith. Well the Jews made it very clear that this God that you have embraced is theirs, and they are his chosen people. Everyone else are gentiles. The Romans not satisfied with this low estate (second place) made up another God (Jesus) in which they could have a more prominent position (vicar of Christ I think their pope is called ) and then turned on the Jews and started persecuting them for being heretics and non believers.
    Well I do believe in God, my God, the same God my ancestors have been worshiping for over 12 thousand years and trust me when I say my God is no real estate agent . And we as African descendants have too much on our plate today to be expending our energies in this never ending saga. Frankly its none of our business because we do not have a dog in the fight.

  24. Normu

    Ahhh Green Monkey, finally, someone well read …..

    This posting was originally about the Arab-Israeli conflict, but I see no harm in taking a little diversion.

    Secular humanists have been trying for centuries to disprove the historical Jesus – it’s called the “Jesus Myth Theory”. Please take careful note that it is still in fact a “theory” – one that has its origins in the French “enlightenment”, recently made popular by Christopher Hitchins and Richard Dawkins.

    The “Testimonium Flavianum” quoted by the atheist Dr Murdock has been said to be spurious, but the only thing scholars agree on is at worst there was some interpolation.

    There is consensus that the writings of Josephus are authentic, with the notable exception of the TF. The discussion generally falls into three camps:
     Those who defend the authenticity of the entire passage;
     Those who reject the entire passage;
     Those who believe the passage has an authentic core but also includes later embellishments by Christian scribes.

    Recent scholarly discussion has favoured partial authenticity of the TF, and scholars agree that Josephus did write something about Jesus, though it was added to by later Christian scribes.

    Geza Vermes offers a speculative reconstruction of the original text of the TF removing later Christian additions, indicating deletions with “…”:

    “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, […] for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him [both] many of the Jews [and many of the Gentiles?]. He was [called] the Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; […] And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

    Josephus also writes of a Jewish sect led by James the Just, whom he calls the brother of Jesus. Josephus also includes sections on John the Baptist.

    There is broad scholarly consensus that the two passages referring respectively to John the Baptist, and to James the brother of Jesus are genuine.

    The Jesus/James reference of Josephus is generally considered reliable, supporting the historicity of Jesus.

    So we are left with one passage which later Christian scribes may have “padded” on which Dr Murdock et al hang their theory on debunking the historical Jesus.

    Like I said before, there are several other historical figures that make reference to the “Chrestus”, whose authenticity no-one would question.

  25. Normu

    Dessalines, there you go again putting words in my mouth – I never said you were antagonistic to God and faith. What I said was:

    ” I would not attempt to use the bible for historical “land giving” or anything else as I am fully aware that people who are antagonistic to God and faith aren’t interested.” which was a reference to the bible as a source. But I should have qualified it as “Christian faith” as I did in an earlier posting.

    Good for you that you have your own God. Indeed, why is Mecca, Rome, or Jerusalem more sacred than Bosumtwi?

    But that “never ending saga” you referred to will one day engulf alot more than just the Middle East and we in the rest of the world will be affected by it.

  26. Dessalines

    @ Normu tell us oh great well read one….(because I can smell a google and poster a mile away) who are these CONTEMPORANEOUS historical figures that makes reference to Christ – do they have names? And ‘the Jesus myth theory has its origins in the French “enlightenment”? Well well read one, the existence of Jesus has been doubted for centuries before the French ‘humanists’ The Chinese, Japanese and most Asian cultures see Jesus as a figure in Middle eastern mythology just as they view Odin and Thor. Indians (Hindus) also believe he is a copy cat of Vishnu. Most Muslims think he existed but that he was just a prophet. And lastly but most importantly the Jews (who are still awaiting the coming of the Messiah) have been saying for centuries before the French humanists that either he didnt exist or he was a false prophet. Up to date 12-6-2011 there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus (which is why he is still depicted as blue eyed and blond haired) so yes it is common sense to question his authenticity.

  27. Normu

    @Dessalines – because you’ve peeped through my windows to see what I have on my book shelves? Did you go googling behind me to check my facts?? Basic knowledge with referencing tools I would imagine is standard. You trying to tell me you keep all facts and figures in your head? I actually have researched the works of Flusser, Bultman and Schweitzer because the God I serve does not ask me to have blind faith – He actually says “Come, let us reason together”.

    Even scholars have to reference some works (far more me), even if it’s their own notes.

    But I will admit I had to google what god an African descendant worships, cause I didn’t have a clue which one to pick – is it cousin Andwele 12 times removed, or great great grandad Abebe? (It doesn’t feel good when someone patronizes your religion does it, the way you and others have patronized christianity in this forum?)

    But tell me, what does the historical existence of Jesus have to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict? You accused me of using the bible for “facts”, which I never did – and now you’re trying to draw me into a “discussion” about the existence of Jesus. Why? Is that your pet subject – trying to deny the existence of Jesus? The way the “colonial oppressors” suppressed your religion and tried to de-legitimize it?

    But this “discussion” has served a useful purpose. It proves that the Arab-Israeli conflict is NOT about land, but about RELIGION and whose GOD is superior – because every discussion about it eventually comes down to a discussion on GOD.

    If you want to discuss the Jesus Myth Theory you can do so with Green Monkey and the two of you can have a feel good session with that.

  28. Salahuddin

    @ Just Passing through…..
    If you are going to state statistics, please use the same year as a benchmark. According to the UNreliable,UNworthy, Unimplementable(i.e. if you are a Jew), U.N., 4,228 Palestinians have died since 2000 as compared to 1024 Israelis.
    We will not even go into the type of weapons at both parties disposal. The only reason the Palest. use suicide bombings is that they have no other options. Meanwhile, the Yews only have 2 apaches, 1 F-16,1 submarine and no nuclear arsenal.They dont even have a nuclear reactor so the I.A.E.A isnt necessary to come to Zionland. Why am I wasting my time here I dont know.
    below is the U.N. link with all the stats. However you look at it, its disproportionate at all levels.

  29. Just passing thru

    A year was not apparent in your posting. I’ve had a look at the link you posted. I don’t think that Normu (or anyone for that matter) is denying the disproportionate levels, but the salient point was plausible reasons for the difference in fatalities other than the favoured view that the Israelis are deliberately targeting civilians.

    Take for instance this quote from the link you provided:
    “Amongst Israelis, 69% of those killed were civilians and 31% members of the IDF.”

    “It is considerably more difficult to distinguish precisely who amongst those Palestinians killed were civilians. Since September 2000, of Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces, whose status was known, 59% were civilians and 41% were engaged in hostilities at the time of their death.” (unquote)

    I think this quote might lend some credence to Normu’s point that a child (16 & under) or a woman throwing a molotov cocktail from amongst combatants might end up getting shot – but the status of that Palestinian, not necessarily being known because there’s nothing in their hand at the time of reckoning, they might be counted as a civilian. Regardless, this quote from the source you linked, clearly indicates that Palestinians have killed a HIGHER percentage of CIVILIANS than the Israelis have killed. What that tells me is that the Palestinian militants are deliberately targeting civilians, and that is considered a war crime with the Geneva Convention.

    PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION TO THE WORDS – “It is considerably more difficult to distinguish precisely who amongst those Palestinians killed were civilians.”

    There’s a good reason for that difficulty – I think if the truth were really known, the percentage of those engaged in hostilities would rise, and the percentage of those considered to be civilians would decrease.

  30. Just passing thru


    hahahahahha – I just saw your (i.e. if you are a Jew) comment – hahahaha – that’s funny 🙂
    But for the record, I am not a Jew but I still think the UN is useless …. and all those things you said – and come on, Saudi Arabia on the UNHRC? And Iran bidding for a membership?!

  31. were uniformed and plains-clothed Police plus Private Security, LESC already has a Metal Detector gate but I almost expected one of those TSA scanners to be there as well! Good thing I left my 12 in 1 pliers at home, eh? (I deliberately did not photograph the officers in order not to compromise their identities for future events)”

  32. BFP

    Hi Ian,

    Cliverton talking.

    Why was all the security necessary? Was there a fear that the Jews would attack? Perhaps a rogue band of Seventh Day Adventist suicide bombers? What do you think?

  33. Actually, Cliverton, if you read my article, the security could be to prevent usually better armed Jews from slaughtering Muslims who only have rocks… Yes there was the Holocaust, but then Israelis and their descendants need to remember not to behave like the very Schutz Staffel they detest, nicht wahr? Both sides were quite vigorous that night, not only Muslims but Bajan Jews too – I’d say the security was to make sure BOTH sides behave!

  34. BFP

    Ian, you lose credibility so quickly when you go reefer madness on us.

    Are you seriously suggesting that the security at the event was concerned about armed Jewish terrorists slaughtering the Muslim speakers?

    Ian. Please.

  35. Oh I forget how you think, the only good Muslim is a dead one, right? And I am certain Israeli soldiers have NEVER been bullies to Palestinian protesters who have only rocks compared to the weaponry for Tel Aviv military of which the bill is usually footed by the good ol’ US of A? Why not be brave and read my item, I look at how both sides can do way better – but if you are gonna hold down one line? Well then yes, dammit, I will go the other way, cause if no one speaks for Islam, what will happen when it’s MY turn? Who will talk for me when no one else is left (or right)?

  36. BFP

    Ian, get a grip on yourself. The Israeli military have done terrible things. Terrible, brutal and uncalled for slaughter of civilians, either themselves or when they stood by and watched as in Lebanon.

    But diverting the conversation, questions and issues about why all the security was necessary in Bridgetown by talking about the Israeli war crimes is outrageous even for you, my friend.

    You know why the security was necessary. It was necessary for the same reason that prohibits you from posting a cartoon of Muhammed as you did with Jesus.

    Ian, the intellectual dishonesty is frankly way beneath my understanding of who you are. I don’t understand.


  37. Happen to know

    Security was put in place for:

    1. The Minister of Foreign Affairs who had indicated she was attending.
    2. Walid Shoebat – whose own family as well as militant Muslims have threatened to KILL him since he converted to christianity and started talking about the REAL Islam – not the one with the peaceful veneer. He has had to change his name and move frequently to avoid being KILLED.
    3. Joel Richardson – also not his real name since his life (and the lives of his wife and children) has been threatened since he started evangelizing Muslims (because that is a death sentence in itself in a Muslim country) and speaking about the “religion of peace”.

    And Ian, the discussion had NOTHING to do with Bin Laden – that was ALOT of “journalistic” licence you took. But I suppose if you aren’t very good at what you do then you have to SPECULATE, make stuff up and pad it with inane quotes and nonsense. If you were any kind of real reporter/journalist you would have sought out the organizers and maybe actually ASKED them instead of taking the lazy or sensationalist route and SPECULATING.

    But at least you got right the fact that the Muslim community of Barbados “SEE NO CONFLICT IN ACCEPTING SHARIA LAW YET OBEYING AND FOLLOWING THE LAWS OF BARBADOS.”

    As for your question about “copy-catting” in Barbados – Trinidad is not too far away, and Abu Bakr has spent a tremendous amount of time in the home of a prominent Bajan Muslim before the coup. You think they were discussing crochet patterns?

    And I leave you with this quote from Winston Churchill:

    “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile—hoping it will eat him last.”

  38. @ “Happen To Know” – Shalom! Here’s an extract of the Press Release which was sent in lieu of an Invitation;-

    “Bajans are invited to attend the Panel Discussion – The Israeli Palestinian Crisis Exposed on Friday, May 27th at the Lloyd Erskine Sandiford Conference Centre from 7 p.m. This topic should be of immense interest to you especially in light of the recent reports of the death of Osama bin Laden. The purpose of the discussion is to bring a diverse range of perspectives on the issues surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, thereby broadening the understanding of the people of Barbados on the complex mixture of religious fervor, territorial rivalry and geopolitical impact of this conflict.”

    @Cliverton – There is no intellectual dishonesty in my assessment, especially in view of the fact BFP has admitted on more than one occasion they have NEVER done a SINGLE positive item on adherents of Allah… You are walking down a dangerous line, and I can get just as vicious…

  39. BFP

    Hi Ian

    Please allow your dear editor Marcus to step into the fray.

    BFP published several positive articles on folks who are Muslims, but like The Bajan Reporter, we’ve never published an article on the positive aspects of Islam as a religion because as we’ve said before, we can’t see any positive aspects or results of Islam. This is not to say that persons who are Muslims are not positive forces in their communities, we believe that their positive results in their communities are in spite of, not because of, Islam the religion, judicial and political system.

    I would direct your attention to a few of our stories that highlight positive actions by persons who are Muslims:

    Essay contest winner Juwayriyah Nana: “At whose expense do we litter on our beaches…”

    Sulaimaan Ukadia of the Al Falah Primary School wins BNB Right Start speech competition

    Perhaps Ian, you can direct us to some Bajan Reporter links where you’ve published stories on the positive aspects of Islam the religion?



  40. Palestinian Rocks?!

    Ian, why do you keep saying that the Palestinians “only have rocks” – you’re talking about the so-called “non-combatants” right? Because no-one in their right mind would deny that the Palestinians have M-16s, M-4s, Katyusha rockets and other Russian made weapons.

    As for “bullying and excessive force”, are you acquainted with the Powell Doctrine, “America should enter fights with every bit of force available or not at all.”?

    The bottom line is that Israel would have no need to respond with military force if the Palestinians were not attacking its citizens and soldiers – which is a far closer and immediate threat than the USA launching 23 cruise missiles at Iraq’s intelligence headquarters (hitting a civilian neighborhood in the process) because there was an assassination attempt on Bush in 1993. Powell called it an “appropriate, proportional” response.

    How is it not “appropriate, proportional” when Israel uses an F-16 (which is used because of its accuracy) to target known weapons caches – and the Israelis announce that they’re coming to do it before they actually do it, thereby not only warning the civilians in the area, but the terrorists too. You think the suicide bombers warned the parents of the children that were killed in the ice cream parlor?

    If you are going to talk about a subject where thousands of precious lives are being lost, at least give the victims the dignity of truth – because the Palestinian civilians are as much victims of the militant Hamas as are the Israelis.

  41. Well, well – now I am Public Enemy No 1? Comment awaits Moderation, is it Salt Mines or Gulag for me?

  42. Happen to know

    Ian, it seems clear to me that the OBL mention was to link it to TERRORISM.

    You probably should have continued reading the release beyond the mention of OBL which clearly states the PURPOSE of the discussion, which was to discuss the issues surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    That was very irresponsible reporting. Even the Nation got it right in their report, although they missed the fact that the panelists did indeed discuss whether or not peace was possible – ie, not possible until Hamas removes from their charter a Hadith which tells them it is their divine right to kill Jews. Even Nakhuda said that peace was not possible unless there were “honest peace-brokers”. He wants a “hudna”. You know what that is?

  43. I have 4 items which list positive Islamic items I have run between 2007 to Present, BFP is yet to remove them from Moderation… Why am I not surprised?

  44. BFP

    Hi Ian,

    No salt mines. No gulag. Only the WordPress spam filter that grabbed your comment because it had more than two links in it.

    But you already knew that. 🙂


    Mein Gutten Freunde Ian – Please be aware Barbados Free Press is to say only Muslims are evil and Jews may be bad but they are better than Allah-shouters. That is very likely since Gary Lewis of UNDP is part of the group, ever wonder why the fixation on flying and the hatred of Muslims? He’s a Bajan in Afghanistan – I do recall BFP bragging how they did an entry in Kabul? I can offer other tidbits but I may get court-martialled!

  46. Well now what about the Oslo Fourth Reich-er who tried slaughtering his own in hopes of an Islamic pogrom? How about Walid Shoebat whose CNN’s Anderson Cooper revealed to be a Fraud? What say wunna NOW, huh???

  47. Looksee

    The horrible evil of the Oslo mass killer was assisted by his access to weapons and the fact that he was dealing with an unarmed (read dis-armed) population.

    On the issue of his evil act compared with Muslims, I hear no Christians celebrating his act or congratulating him. That is the big difference that massive numbers of Muslims celebrate this type of evil when committed by a Muslim in furtherance of Islam. There is no real comparison or equality between this one act by a crazy evil person in Oslo, and the daily slaughter committed by Muslims around the world.

  48. Anonymous

    solomon the son of david, king of the jews was a balck so what the fuck ya all saying read songs of solomon ch1 vs. 5