What values are taught at Al-Falah Muslim School?
“Hijab is compulsory… hide woman’s beauty as protection from rape.”
“Beheading, chopping off your hands, severe beatings are Islamic rules, nothing wrong in it.”
When a dozen or so girls from the Al-Falah Islamic School recently participated in the Long Beach clean-up while wearing Muslim dress and veils, Barbados Free Press wrote The Muslim vision of the future for all Barbadian women and republished a photo of the group. (shown above, courtesy of The Nation)
Three of the students in the photo placed comments on our article – and what they have to say is most disturbing.
Naively, the 14 to 16 year old girl students of the Al-Falah Muslim School simply wrote the truth as they see it and revealed values and standards that are totally at odds with our society.
No person in Barbados, and especially in the Ministry of Education, can read their comments and not be concerned about what is being taught at the Al-Falah Muslim School.
In the past, Barbados Free Press questioned the text books used and the lessons taught at our Muslim schools. BFP asked what the Ministry of Education is doing to supervise a curriculum that is largely created and sometimes directly delivered (electronically and via publications) from Saudi Arabia.
This concern about Muslim schools is worldwide as advances in technology allow Saudi Arabia to export their values and standards to children in Muslim schools everywhere.
“PUPILS at Islamic schools across Britain are being taught how to chop off a criminal’s hand and that Jews are conspiring to take over the world, a BBC investigation has found.”
… from The Australian British pupils taught how to carry out Sharia punishments at Islamic schools
(Give thanks and a Banks beer to Jihad Watch for the link)
Barbados is not immune from the same type of problems being experienced in the UK.
Posted below is the full comment written by the teenage girl student from the Barbados Al-Falah Muslim School. You’ll find a link to the other two comments as well.
Are the values and standards shown in the comments an acceptable result for a school in Barbados?
Is teaching that that there is nothing wrong in mutilation and beheading for offences against Muslim Sharia law acceptable in our country’s schools?
Is it proper to teach that the onus is on women to prevent rape by “covering their beauty”?
You want to know what is taught at the Barbados Al-Falah Muslim School?
Here it is…
(Bold highlighting on interesting statements added by BFP)
GirlInThePic#2 (Original comment posted here)
October 29, 2010 at 2:35 am
Since my two friends have alread placed their views above^ I will state my own views and hope you people comprehend it.
First off, we went to the beach for a Geography project DUNDUNDUN!
Second off it was also to help OUR country ’cause we are Barbadians. Isn’t this a good deed of ours Yes it is.
Third off, Everyone has five fingers and they are all differnet. This is the reason why some where complete Hijab and some don’t. Every muslim is different so stop comparing us Barbadian muslims to the Pakis .. who rage war all the time and are terrorists. I as a muslim can tell you that NO REAL MUSLIM would ever hurt any innocent lives and if they do, may Allah Ta’ala forgive those brothers and sisters.
Fourth, have you all forgotten we all came from the same people? Adam and Hawa, known as (Eve)? Or do you just think we are aliens from outer space? Someone said that muslims don’t drive but I can prove you wrong. Women do drive, so that person is a “fail”.
Fifth, The person called Jane who goes to the site “crossmuslims” wher i talks about things which aren’t true about us, you are seriously misinformed. You know why? Because our beloved prophet whom we LOVE so much more than wealth, family, life, even your husband, mother and father (but not god)! He was a prfect exampe of what ANY PERSON should be like. He was no rapist or pedophile or “nutjob”. He never had sexual intercourse with Aisha (r.a). She remained a chaste woman for her entire life. Those who say he was a pedophile, May Allah Ta’ala forgive you! This is God’s most beloved person and you talked about him in this way, I surely don’t know what punishment awaits those people, but it ain’t good :/.
Sixth, the people in this picture, these girls (including me) we are only from the ages 14-16.
We pose no threat to this country, we only wish to live in peace and spread our wonderous religion to those who want to join. We don’t force non-muslims to embrace Islam. So whatever foolishness I read above about “forcing people to accept Islam and muslims are the most perverted etc” is all false. People even mentioned the 9/11 incident. Well…guess what my fellow brother and sisters..NEWS FLASH! we aren’t pakis..we are BARBADIANS, so why do you continue to compare us? Who knows why, only god does. Maybe the media hs corruted your minds already enough. You know once one of my friends got asked “we dont even know wuh wunna does got unduh dah thing! wana cud be hidin guns!” < This is a perfect example of how the media corrupted people’s minds to think that all muslims are terrorist. I despise the media tbh.
Seventh, I’ve decided to give you people a few pointers on Muslims:
a) muslims are NOT terrorists ( those who are terrorists ar not muslims, they pretend to be muslims to make us look bad, common knowledge)
b) Hijab is compulsory on anyone who has reached the age of puberty. Reason being to hide one’s beauty so no unfortunate events occur. Eg, rape. It’s a form of protection. Did you hear that? Feel it..embrace it! It protects us!
c) Muslims are suppse to be peaceful and loving. Onc again (NOT TERRORIST)!
d) The prophet was not a pedophile. Do not make a mockery of what you don’t know. That is a sin in EVERY religion. Common knowledge once again.
e)MUSLIM WOMEN CAN DRIVE! DUHHH (im plannign to getmy license next year, no one is stopping me).
f)FACT – Did you guys even know that the Government system was etablished by the muslims? Yes it was. After the prophet died there were leaders after him, one was calle Umar and he etalished te governent system for the first time. So what is sooooooooooo wrong about muslims leading for an era once more? What if a muslim became prime minister? What do you think she’s going to do? Kick you all out? Enslave you? Make you accept Islam? Kil you? CHop yur heads off? pleaseeeeeeeeee That is all nonsense. Se woud rule like anyone else. She would possibly invite you towards islam but not force you, nor kill you, nor kick you out, nor eat you alive, nor enslave you. I will say it once again, Islam is a religion of Peace. Get that through your thick skulls!
I wonder if there is anywhere in your studies tat tell you about who brought about the government system..
g) Oh and we are not perverts…we may think like normals girls and boys but we are not perverted in the way of pedophilia, racism, raping..etc (But apparently some christian priests are?? O.o)
h) There are different types of muslims(bet you never knew that) I am A Suni muslim – this type of muslim is said to be the better of the others judging on the beliefs. The different muslims have different beliefs about Islam.
i)If the 9/11 attack was really caused by “muslims” then by my knowledge^ and what I said you should come to know that those couldn’t be real muslims, as we would not do anything of the sort. Btw Bush has always had it out for us :/.
j) Beheading..chopping off your hands, severe beatings,etc. Are strict Islamic rules and these are the things that were done during our prophets time and are continued till this day to follow the tradition, there is nothing wrong in it. These things are done to teach lessons so they won’t commit the act ever again. Once in the past a father had to give his OWN son for consumng alcohol (but he was unaware he had drank alcohol tho) a number of lashses which resulted in his death.
k) If you didn’t know, then I will tell you that in the times before many people had accepted Islam because of our prophet’s sublime character not by the way of the sword. If only the Christans from before had listened to the prophet, then all of this confusion (this as an example) would not be happening. What a wonderful world this would be..
If we had all opened our eyes to see…
Ok i think I made myself clear, thanks for reading this if you did.
I hope you guys understand some new thins about us 🙂
I hope I helped.
I hope I become a great scholar one day.
I hope Inshallah that next time things won’t get out of hand because of our Geography projects 😉 .
Bye for now!
Further Reading
Nation News: Al-Falah producing top students
Nation News: Class of its own
And a reminder of what the student said: “Beheading, chopping off your hands, severe beatings are Islamic rules, nothing wrong in it”…
Jihad Watch: India: Muslims cut off professor’s hand over months-old test question about punctuation
Barbados Free Press 
When she marries, will it be her choice or will it be arranged? In either case, how close is the suitor to her own age?
Is that all Ian Bourne has to say?Maybe he would like to marry one???
Why don’t you write an article with the title “Beautiful Islands of the Caribbean, Leaders: We have no problem with KILLING, EXECUTING, MURDERING”, (all have the same effect as beheading). And then mention that Grenada, Jamaica, St. Lucia, St.Vincent and Guyana have no problem with gays being executed. People of all religions and races across the world still support the death penalty as a form of punishment for certain criminal acts. Why dont you write about them as well, they are soooo barbaric.
Also that article about the incident in India, all I have to say is: do you see how those people, regardless of religion, behave when their team looses a cricket match? Ignorance on their part.
@rasta man – the question is actually very pointed, it speaks to an arranged marriage usually with a man in his 50’s at least… I had a long diatribe with a member of the community who would not speak to a fatwah on 2 young Islamic teens who were to get betrothed to men in their 60’s, they could or would not answer my questions and eventually they were dismissed by the rest of the speakers on that thread here…
Ian Borune as a Muslim Bajan I can tell you that I have never heard of any Muslim girl in Barbados being forced into any marriage with someone much older than them. In fact in Islam the female has the right to turn down any proposal. It is correct that dating, sex before marriage etc is not allowed in Islam, but that does not mean people are forced into marriages without their consent. If a young girl marries someone much older than them, then this is not something seen as preferrable is Islam, nor is it forbidden. It would be wrong for a girl to be forced into such a marriage.
I never said forced, I said arranged – it is also prevalent in the Hindustani community as well, but somehow there’s more cooperation there and usually the parties are rather close in age so as to avoid any confusion…
Well I am telling you Muslims girls in barbados do not have their marriages arranged to men much older than them. This is a fact.
Prove it
Firstly I want to say that I do not agree with the views expressed by your blogger.
Having said that I have three comments:
– I uphold the right for her to state her views even if I disagree with them.
– I don’t think it is right that BFP should make a critical leading article out of a submission from a contributor. If you want us to post our views, that’s fine. If you don’t, ridicule out views, then we won’t post at all. You have a responsibility to those who contribute to BFP to let us state our positions without editorial critiscism.
– Your contributor is between 14 and 16 years old. I was close to being a communist when I was that age. Not now though. Give the girl some space – you are not arguing with Mia Mottley. This shoud not be headline news.
Ian Borune you laid the allegation you bring the proof. I alredy said it does not happen.
It’s desperation economics – whether family survival or personal choice.
Cow, Bizzy or O$A, what’s the big difference Ian?
I think Ian has a personal problem,he better look in the mirror.
@ST – LOL!
@think – Ah boy, here we go again, oh you say so – therefore it is the case (When you talk, EF Hutton listens?)? Gosh, then that makes it a surah, huh? Wow, forgive this poor Nasrany, inshallah!
If you believe that then I have some demilitarised oases on sale in beautiful down-town Kandahar, you say arranged Muslim weddings in Barbados are never with older men? So you must have evidence? “Have faith in Allah, but tie your camels.“
@Headman – Look in the mirror and love me even more, knowing you get annoyed only pleases me more – sucks to be you huh? Only folk can be like me through Special Dispensation!
Ian stop loosing sleep over Muslims, if you cant beat em join em..
http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article189846.ece
When Muslims stop female discrimination and drink booze and eat souse
The so-called “final prophet”, the ultimate child molester Mohammed, set the example by marrying a nine-year old girl, alleging that he was instructed by his god to do so! Little , was it Aisha? just did not have a chance to enjoy her childhood. While she was interested in her dolly, mohommed came with an erection to have sex with her!
I hope this will not set off a war in Barbados because I speak the truth ……. and to think, these muslims are saying that their god allah is the same as our Great Almighty God. Wuh kinda god is that muslim god who could sanctioned the molestation of an immature nine year old girl, hardly off her mother’s breast?
These muslims, I watching closely how they growing in Barbados. We had better be careful,talking bout dem peaceful? The quoran dont say so! It called anybody who don’t believe in them “Infidels”, and they have a design to take over the world.
Well listen muslims, you can come , but do in Rome as the Romans do you hear? Don’t come with no foolishness trying to change this country to Sharia and all of dat damned stupidness. We in standing for that like how you all gone and mash up nearly all of Europe!
Enjoy the same freedoms that we do here in peaceful Buhbados, but don’t try that infiltration thing. It is said that muslims real patient , and they can wait as much as forty years before they make they move. You see how them fellows lay low in Miami for years, learning to fly plane and thing, and them BOOM, they say their ignorant allah prayers, sneak on pon the planes, and then kill all of them innocent people!
We ain’t paranoia, but Bajans, the warning gone out!! WATCH THEM MUSLIMS, whether they SUNNI, SHIITE or WHOEVER! they spell
T-R-O-U-B-L-E wherever they go. That madman Mohammed, who used to have convulsions in a cave, who telling these thousands of suicide bombers to kill innocent people and end up with 72 virgins in heaven, based all of this foolishness on his own sensuous lifestyle, then blame it on Allah!
By the way, when a suicide bomber is female, do they have MALE virgins for them in Paradise too? IMAGINE THAT! PROMISCUITY IN HEAVEN?
bfp needs hits and comments to maintain their claims about popularity. this is their way of doing it. very rupert murdochish. sensationalist headlines, diatribe, untruths, misinterpretations. the usual stuff they learn from their right wing and evangelical mentors. oh bfp, are you going to check my isp. oh i am so scared.
i am a muslim. i am barbadian. i am very educated. i have a high paying “good” job. i have numerous friends who cut across the social, economic, political and religious divide.
yes i live and walk around barbados. we have probably come into contact. AND I AM MUSLIM. MUSLIM. MUSLIM.
take that and smoke it in your pipe. or is that drink it in the glass with the alcohol you so proudly claim to consume in vast amounts.
Mr. Ian Bourne don’t mix up the practises of the HIndus with the religion of Islam. Forced marriages are definitely not allowed in Islam and also if a marriage was arranged and neither the boy nor the girl agrees upon hearing/finding out about it then they have the right to decline and cannot be forced to into the marriage.
if u mean arranged in the sense that others may find potential suitors for the boy/girl then yes that is done in Islam when the boy and/or girl is READY for marriage and give their consent for someone to look for someone for them, but after that the boy and girl are SUPPOSED to meet, see one another, talk to one another see if they are compatible they like one another and then after that meeting it is TOTALLY up to BOTH the boy and the girl if they want to go ahead with the marriage. even if one of them says no then the marriage cannot take place. this is how it should be done according to Islam…but u cannot judge the entire religion and all Muslims based on the act of a few if they insist on arranged and forced marriages where the boy and girl have no choice. whatever their reasons may be for doing that Islam is not one of them because FORCED MARRIAGES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN ISLAM.
and also all this free will everyone talks about….If the Muslims have no problem with their religion, the girls have no problem wearing the hijab, then why should others have a problem? they choose to follow their religion and wear the hijab. they arent asking anyone to liberate them so y is everyone else trying to?
Muslim women do not need liberating they are not oppressed. they also have many rights.
but everyone needs to realise u cant judge an entire religion based on the acts of a few. we dont go judging christianity based on what ppl who claim to be christian do.
Look ‘Proud To Be A Muslim’ you people get around here and constantly throw scorn on Christianity! I still have the newspaper clipping from a few yeras back, where the Muslim Association of Barbados brought some Imam Lecturer/ Scholar here from New York to Frank Collymore Hall, and he stated with great boldness that ” take away Jesus, and Christianity is nothing” or something to that effect. I will look for the clipping and come back here with more on what he said. BUT he also said something about Christian Pastors not having anything worthwhile to tell their congregations on Sundays. You repeatedly trumpet that Jesus is NOT the son of God, but a lesser prophet than Mohammed. We Christians forgive you for those insults, but don’t try to foist your false religion on us.
When Jesus Christ gave His life on the cross, He did it also for muslims, hindus, all of you/ all of us, and He said there is only one way to God, and that is through His Blood. Did mohammed die for anyone? he did not die for me! Jesus was the epitome of love and compassion, the perfect being. Wasn’t mohammed a plunderer, a robber, a war monger, who coveted and stole his own relative’s wife ?
Hi BFP:
I think that we should encourage the Muslims in Barbados to discuss issues. We do not know if they are allowed to critically examine information in their school, but certainly encouraging their participation here can facilitate such a useful exercise.
Non-Muslims are justifiably concerned given the frequent and severe Muslim persecution of non-Muslims in Muslim dominated countries worldwide. Perhaps dialogue with Barbadian Muslims can help us to understand why?
I would suggest that you consider rewriting this post in a way that encourages Muslims to participate, so that we can learn something from them, and they from us.
One question that I would like the Muslims to answer, if we can coax then back here, is: do you think that the holy war described in the Qur’an is over?
Regards.
Hahaha much ado bout nothing. *FP at it again. Trying to drum up some traffic/comments on their blog. When I want to see junk I come here. Anybody notice how much comments they drum in other articles? Except for 2 posts this month,they cant get past ten in many of them.
Any blog that has an anti muslim site in its side bar cant be taken as trying to be balanced.
The garbage man still havent produced or even quoted from this fatwa that he has seen as yet. We still waiting.
White boy ,go in d rum shop in Oistins n then fly that lil plane ya got to Vancouver.
@150 – show us the verse that mentions “infidels”. Now that you cant , why dont you just shut to f*** up.
I would like the garbage man (bourne) to tell us which muslim teen married/or was supposed to marry a 60 year old in Barbados. I know a lot of bajan girls that got children from a lot of old men in Bim though. But wait, them aint muslims , so nothin aint wrong with that.
Researching:
I have noticed a pattern here at BFP and every other website that posts anything controversial about Muslims.
The pattern is that the so-called “controversial” posts like this one by BFP are usually based upon something controversial or objectionable that a Muslim has said or done that has been reported in the news media or: something that was said or done at a Muslim event but got leaked out. (Like when Muslim protesters in London carried signs saying that Hitler had the right idea, or when Muslims chopped off the professor’s hand etc.)
When this “controversial” or objectionable statement or action made by a Muslim is reported in the media or the blogs, the reaction from the Muslim community is usually to attack the person or organisation that wrote the article. Seldom do they address the veracity of what was reported.
As usual in this case the Muslim commenters have said everything except to address the root question of the article: Is this what is being taught in the Muslim schools in Barbados? Is this what a Barbadian 14 year old girl believes after being a student of that school? Is this acceptable in Barbados? Does the Min of Ed intend to do anything about it?
None of those core questions of this article are covered by the Muslim commenters because in my experience they will not engage directly “dialogue” on the core issues because they know they have problems if they have to explain or disagree with the truth of the girl’s statements.
You say dialogue. My experience is that the Muslims will not “dialogue” if anyone disagrees wit them. They want a forum to spout off all around the core points of the article without being contested.
You say encourage them to dialogue so we can learn something, but what you really mean is don’t take them to task for the highly objectionable values being perpetuated by the school. Don’t mention that anything is wrong when a 14 year old student says and believes values that are incompatible with our free and democratic society.
Had a Catholic or Protestant or Public school student made statements in a public media that indicated they were being taught objectionable values at their school, you would see the Headmaster move to investigate, explain and reassure the community.
You will not see the Headmaster of the Muslim school do the same thing. He will quietly talk to the students and tell them to hide their teachings from the public. We will return to more photos in the paper of happy Muslim students picking up trash on the beach and smiling as they head to school, but the major Barbados news media will never question what is being taught because to do so is to bring an attack.
Explain this to me please, how do we “dialogue” with Muslims if we cannot mention the parts of their beliefs and actions that are so objectionable?
Look at the story of the Christian teacher who had his hand chopped off. He merely put a question in an exam where the fisherman was named Muhammed, a common name, and someone took offence that he had blasphemed the Muslim prophet Muhammed.
That is the “dialogue” that one of the above commenters blows away with “that’s how they do things over there” but he never addresses the core issue of this article which is that the 14 year old student believes in the same values that saw the professor attacked.
The core values of the Muslim religion are indefensible in a free and democratic society. In a Muslim society you can’t disagree with the core values because if you do, you will be killed. A government court in Pakistan sentenced a man to death this week because he left the Muslim religion and became a Christian.
Go to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and try to dialogue that and see what happens.
@Nevermind Kurt. The muslim comm. avoids the topic bcos its a non issue. If you want to find out what is being taught, why dont you ask the black bajan non muslim teachers who teach there? Or just go over there for yourself. Dont do like the flyboy who runs this blog . He only knows about muslims through the medium of jihadwatch n whatever else.
Anybody who wants to debate , I will gladly do so, but not on this sh**e place.
Adress the issues of the article??? What issues? All Muslims believe in hijab as compulsory (there may be slight differences in the exact definition) and all Muslims believe in whatever punishments God prescribed for certain crimes ( to be carried out by the relevant authorities) You dont need to go to Muslim school to learn that. At the same time what happened in india is not allowed in Islam. It seems u want to tell us what to believe in. Go and tell our caribbean neighbours if its ok to kill gays.
Here is what I took from a person`s FB page.
If an Atheist in Barbados called Allah and Jesus Christ a farce, would there be a riot? Where is the humanity? I dare ask why are mainstream Muslim silent on atrocities committed on Christians.
What about the two teenaged girls Roxanne Gibbs helped go into “Witness Protection” when they did NOT like the choice of marriage partner? The parents were adamant the union go forth as planned?
I have said arranged marriages not forced, but since I am being misquoted what about this proposed wedding years ago? If the girls said NO and the parents said do it anyway, what kind of Union is that?
Plus – the Ministry of Education should look at its Muslim students and very carefully hold quiet tests to see where their views lie on mutilation in relation to retribution and/or criminal activity?
“Off with their heads”-red queen, does Islam allow you to curse like that?
@rasta, It is abhorred . But after all, I is still a Bajan. And as other people here say, we need to assimilate and mix , so when I put a letter with some stars after it , dont get too picky. LOL
Ian if you said arranged and not forced, then why bring it up in the first place. If it isnt forced then everyones happy! Except you because Muslims make your life unhappy.
I dont know which girls had to go into witness protection becasue they were going to be forced into marriage. Prove It.
Ian you should do some proper research on the aspects of Shariah Law you are interested( not merely searching the net for quotes against Islamic law).
In the mean time you should be worried about those Bajans who arent Muslims but like to stab and shoot each other, pelt bottles at each others in an attempt to MUTILATE each other.
Hello think,
The Bajans who attempt to harm each other don’t do it for religious motivations.
Hey… how about that court in Pakistan that sentenced a Christian woman – Aasia Bibi – to death for blasphemy. What do you think? Should she be executed for what she SAID or not?
Pakistan Muslims warn of anarchy over Christian
By Waqar Hussain (AFP) – 1 day ago
LAHORE, Pakistan — Pakistani Muslims threatened protests and anarchy if the government pardons a Christian mother sentenced to death for blasphemy, calling hundreds of demonstrators onto the streets on Friday.
Demonstrators marched in the eastern city of Lahore after the most influential Sunni Muslim alliance in Pakistan urged the government not to grant mother-of-five Aasia Bibi clemency.
A crowd of several hundred called for “Jihad” and pledged to sacrifice their lives to protect the honour of the Prophet Mohammad, an AFP reporter said.
The rally was organised by a subsidiary of banned charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), which the United Nations has blacklisted as a terrorist organisation.
“We will hold nationwide protests if the government pardons the Christian woman,” the subsidiary’s chief coordinator, Qari Yaqub, told participants.
Politicians and conservative clerics have been at loggerheads over whether President Asif Ali Zardari should pardon Bibi, who was sentenced on November 8 to hang under controversial blasphemy laws for defaming the Prophet Mohammed.
“The pardon would lead to anarchy in the country,” the head of the Sunni Ittehad Council, Sahibzada Fazal Kareem, told AFP.
“Our stand is very clear that this punishment cannot be waived.”
The council opposes Taliban militants, which are fighting government troops in parts of northwest Pakistan, and has also organised a protest march against deadly attacks on Sufi shrines blamed on Islamist hardliners.
Pakistan has yet to execute anyone for blasphemy, but the case exposes the deep faultlines in the conservative country on a law that rights activists say encourages Islamist extremism in a nation wracked by Taliban attacks.
Minority affairs minister Shahbaz Bhatti presented a clemency plea to the government late Thursday on the grounds that the case against Bibi was based only on personal enmity.
Pope Benedict XVI has also called for Bibi’s release and said Christians in Pakistan were “often victims of violence and discrimination”.
But Farhatullah Babar, spokesman for Zardari, hinted Friday that the presidency would instead wait for Bibi’s appeal in the Lahore high court.
“The summary for a pardon has not yet been received from the prime minister. It is also premature as a sentence awarded by a session (court) cannot be implemented until it is endorsed by a high court,” Babar said.
Most of those convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan have their sentences overturned or commuted on appeal through the courts.
Bibi was arrested in June 2009 after Muslim women labourers refused to drink from a bowl of water she was asked to fetch while out working in the fields.
Days later, the women complained that she made derogatory remarks about the Prophet Mohammed. Bibi was set upon by a mob, arrested by police and sentenced on November 8.
Rights activists and pressure groups say it is the first time that a woman had been sentenced to hang in Pakistan for blasphemy. Only around three percent of Pakistan’s population of 167 million are estimated to be non-Muslim.
oh no bournee… here we go again with that same bunch of lies i pointed out to you a few months back.You were supposed tto bring forward proof but u ran like a coward.. y? becos u have no proof theree was a fatwah and also that the girls were being forced into marriage.Come on Bourne,u with the same lies allt he time, but when the arguement was brought fwd u ran like a coward…. run away bourne, run awayy.The girl were entered into a protection program???? ahahahahah bournee yuh full of liess….what protection u on about,when the same girls were with their relatives all along.Come on bourneee
I wonder what it is that jump Ian, it is what some big ups in the house wanted to legalise, and muslims are not for it.
first of all….mr ian bourne…you need to get your facts straight…no muslim girls were ever put in any witness protection program and if i am correct in knowing who you talk about, they were never married to who they were being “forced” to marry. Also, in other religions for instance Hindu, there is also arranged marriages…Proud to be a Muslim is correct in what he/she is saying….no one is forced to marry anyone…if they agree then there is happiness…if not no problem.. nothing is going to happen to the boy/girl if they don’ t want to marry..
Secondly, Nevermind Kurt, if you want to know what is being taught at this school why don’t you ask the teachers that teach there who btw are not muslims????
It is amazing how the Islamic community continues to twist my remarks, I have at no point said FORCED nor did I say the girls WERE in “Witness Protection” I clearly said LIKE {Wit. Prot.}, but I realise twisting and obscuring reality means you doing anything to secure all the pretty virgins from Allah, hope it’s worth it and he gives you the correct gender too.
As for the two girls who did not want to be married, I am having the story tracked – once located (they remember the back page as well) then i will have it scanned as either a JPEG or a High-Res TIFF then I hope “think,” “headman,” “Red Queen,” “passing thru south/north etc.” will apologise in a long public letter to both Free Press and myself.
Plus, if you were real children of Allah you would be brave enough to use your own names and not be cowardly and his with false sobriquets, otherwise you are as cowardly as the masked butchers who slit people’s throats and cut off their heads on video shouting praises to God. The Iranian imam Muqtada Al-Sadr has more integrity than any of you, he never hid and spoke exactly how he felt.
Finally you never answered the mutilation per retribution queries nor Free Press’ concerns of the Pakistani woman who wished to become Christian? As you see, even if their President pardons her, it may well have to be on condition she left Pakistan for good. What tolerance? How pleasant…
there is so many good stuff that muslims are doing here and else where but of course u guys are never gonna report that are u . WONDER WHY???
Mr Bourne i think in your aim to attack Islam and find all faults u r confusing your ownself. u r talking abt arranged marriages not forced ok. well if its arranged n neither the boy nor girl agrees but they are still made to go ahead with it i think this then becomes a forced marriage….not by the laws of Islam only but common sense as well…its arranged but then it becomes forced . so u r indeed talking abt forced marriages because if it was arranged n neither the boy nor girl has a problem with it then there is no problem. so y should u have a problem with it?
I am not attacking Islam, there is good and bad proponents of any religion. Look at Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma or Dave Koresh in Waco, who perpetrated acts in the name of god like Jim Jones in Guyana.
If any Muslim wishes to send me their press releases to show where members of Islamic community are doing good deeds (with relevant photos) then I am more than happy to carry them on my website!
In Barbadian politics, there are members of the Islamic community who participate and are well respected with both Bees & Dem’s, there are also commentators like Sabhir Nakuda who even Christian and Evangelicals welcome in debate.
What I have a problem with is the hand chopping and disrespect of women. Or mutilation of women who wish to initiate divorce… The thing what disturbed Free Press is a 14 year old Muslim girl sees NOTHING wrong with such harsh punitive measures.
Bourne talks about not using their real names yet the same white folks who operate and run this site hide their identities.. Maybe Bourne is all on a high be cause the muslims are against homosexuality
Do you expect that people should accept the fact that you are a christian if that so happens to be your path in life? Do you expect that people should respect your choices to believe as you will believe? Islam is a religion that is far older than any of us, and the history of their culture runs deep. Though many of their beliefs may be dated, because of the times we live in now people in general western society (for the most part can live in peace with one another.) Most of their beliefs that deal with punishment are out of context, I’m sure that if you were living in that day you would have different views but whatever the case may be. IF BY SOME WAY OF POLITICAL TRICKERY LAWS ARE PASSED TO DENY THESE PEOPLE THEIR RIGHTS AS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE AS THEY WILL BELIEVE THEN THIS WORLD IS HEADING FOR SOME SERIOUS SHIT…. If the rights of people can be taken away just because their views on life and their ways of handling situations are different to ours because we as a country are very christian based. DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELVES TO USE RELIGION AS AN ENGINE FOR HATE… It is done every day and we discriminate against the gays, we discriminate against other religions, we discriminate against anyone who has opposing views to our own. How about if you do what is right by you you (being of whatever race, creed or sexual orientation) and unless the beliefs of other people have a truly negative impact on society, leave them in peace.
LOVE THY NEIGHBOR
So what shall be done? In a religion that is almost as followed, if not more so than Christianity..How is it that we will get these people to abandon the faith that they hold deep in their hearts and decide oh… that side of things looks nicer… it won’t end well i think.
In a recent Nation poll some 80% of Barbadians (around 1500 people participated) approved of hanging. Did they all go to this muslim school?
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, its all very old testament stuff, which is similar to what a high proportion, but probably less than 80%, of muslims also believe in.
It would seem that some Barbadians believe that hanging for convicted criminals is fine but be-heading of convicted criminals is not. If we are against beheading (as I am) should we not question what is being taught in all the other schools that churn out people who believe that hanging is somehow all right.
I remember seeing a statistic the other day – it may have been out of date – where 40 executions were done in the United States per year and 100 people given a death penalty, a disproportionate number of whom were black. I am against executions, hanging and beheading, but it seems that some Barbadians are really just making a distinction between “they” executive people and “we” executing people as opposed to saying loudly that all forms of execution are barbaric and should be stopped and that the immorality and ineffectiveness of it should be taught in all of our schools.
ian bourne how many times have people let u know that it against islam to disrepect woman , its culture where u see this and not religion, is ur brain so small u just cant comprehend that.
women in islam also have the right to divorce thier husband unlike some other religions.
Ok WINXS – explain the pretty girl in Afghanistan earlier this year who had he nose and ears cut off? Or the time in Nigeria when a woman discovered she was pregnant with her ex-husband’s child after HE divorced her and the community wanted to stone her to death for adultery? Those were respectful? In that case, Chris Brown should be a national hero with you all…
didnt u read anything that I wrote its against ISLAM. Its thier culture that makes them do this using islam as the excuse jeez!!!!
Oh I see their hollering “In the name of Allah” or citing Islamic law is just an awful coincidence? (Roll Eyes Here)
No one up to now is answering the sad and crazy question how a li’l 14 year old girl sees nothing wrong with dismemberment as Punishment.
I do believe in Capital Punishment but let the offended do the execution, by gun or lethal injection – hanging or electric chair seems cruel.
Yes if a family member was murdered then I would want Capital Punishment – but I know if I was pushed into a rage and murdered in a crime of passion, more than likely I would want to do anything to avoid the sentence…
But guess what? That’s human nature, totally outside of ANY religion!
so wait u can believe in capital punishment but a 14 year old cant is that what ur saying
Hi WINXS
The capital punishment you speak of in Sharia is administered for things like… drawing a cartoon of the Muhammed that Muslims say was a prophet, and for things like a school teacher creating a test question where a fisherman is named Muhammed.
Not to mention hanging 16 year old girls for having sex outside of marriage. Stoning for adultery, etc..
Hacking off hands and feet for theft is not capital punishment, it is barbaric.
Your attempt to establish equivalency between chopping off hands and capital punishment is yet another attempt to step all around the issue…
Is it acceptable in modern Barbados for a school to teach that hacking off limbs is acceptable punishment for theft?
We at BFP say it is not acceptable. I guess you say it is, but we’ll never really know because you don’t want to go there.
*fp, where did the girl say that she was taught in school that chopping off hands is acceptable? You more stupid than i thought. That is her point of view. She never said “my school taught me choppin is good” . You are assuming her school did.
Learn something today….. don’t ASSUME , bcos it can make an ASS out of U and ME. (ASS-U-ME).
If a man get he hand chop off for being a habitual thief, i personally feel he should get he hand cut off too. Then he would only be able to thief with one hand. You dont know how it is to feel when you work so hard to achieve something and somebody thief it just so.And not only that, he returns to thief repeatedly and laughing at you.
If a person steals out of hunger, then that is another matter.
*fp , with regards to what you r referring to,(re: Pakistan/test paper/adultery) , these actions are taken by people who are illiterate and uneducated (Islamically or otherwise) 99% of the time.
If the same Western governments stopped propping up those those dictatorships with military and “other” aid , maybe, then maybe the world might be a better place. Perhaps then countries like Pakistan will spend more resources on education instead of arms.But that wont happen right now, cos countries like the USA thrive on war. If there were no wars they would be bankrupt. On that note the US is bleeding right now bcos of Afghanistan. Who would’ve thought of the day the US went to India looking for Jobs. wuh loss , just a decade ago it was the other way round.
who said the school is teaching that . why dont u guys go to the school and find out what they are really teaching ,u calll it investigative journalism instead of the lies u coming up with here.
of course you’ll find they’re teachng the same curriculum as all the other schools. I challenge u to go there.
maybe then u can get rid of all that negativity that u and ian bourne walks around with and replace it with some positivity.
@Ian,
“Arranged marriage” = Forced marriage. No difference.
Will the Muslims stop pretending and be truthful for a change?
By the way, I am not Pentecostal (and will never be) but I find it extremely disrespectful for the Muslim blogger above to sign in as “PANTYCOSTAL”
When in the minority you give lip service to being tolerant, but in reality your actions show something different.
Hi WINXS
Well!
If the student is expressing values that the school disagrees with because she misunderstands Islam and her lessons, then I guess we can expect to receive a nice email from the school saying exactly that.
Now, how about you WINXS? Do you think that thieves should have their hands chopped off? How about a clear yes or no and explain why you hold your position. That would educate us as to where we’re misunderstanding Islam.
Thanks!
why should the school send u an email, its u guys that need to go there and find out the truth since u made the accusation
i believe in capital punishment carried out by the state (by the way there is no islamic state in the world not even saudi they may practise some sharia laws but they are not an islamic state just a country ruled by american puppets ).
*FP , talk about being twisted. Why should the school send you an email ? If somebody expressed a point of view and mentions that they went to a particular school or works at a particular establishment, does that mean his/her point of view is the same of that school or vice versa?
Now, how about you WINXS? Do you think that thieves should have their hands chopped off? How about a clear yes or no and explain why you hold your position. That would educate us as to where we’re misunderstanding Islam.
Thanks!
You too, “Off with their heads” – Red queen
Do you think that thieves should have their hands chopped off? How about a clear yes or no and explain why you hold your position. That would educate us as to where we’re misunderstanding Islam.
Thanks!
yes i believe ur hands should be cut off if u steal
but it can only be done by the state and every effort be made to make sure u do not have mistaken identity and like I said above there is no islamic state so no one can carry out the punishment
now onto u , are u guys going to the school or not and stop changing the subject
Thanks very much for that answer, WINXS.
Do I presume correctly that you are a Muslim?
And please expand upon your answer as to why you believe thieves should have their hands cut off. Is this a cultural belief on your part, or a religious belief because it is in the Koran? Or something else I haven’t thought of?
Thanks.
@BFP,
Why need we any more witnesses? Their own mouths have condemned them.
Will the truthful side of Islam please stand?
Dear BFP
With about 1.57 billion Muslims comprising about 23% of the world’s population[11] (see Islam by country), Islam is the second-largest religion and arguably the fastest-growing religion in the world.[12][13][14][15][16]
The majority of those 1.5 billion Muslims and those joining daily believe that there is a penalty for stealing once certain conditions are met. If you have a problem with it, too bad. I am posting more detailed info below, even though I know you will find some reason to attack some part of the post.
In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,
The different penalties prescribed by Shariah is not in order to inflict harm on people and make them suffer, rather the Shariah concept for imposing penalties for the various crimes is that they prevent harm, destruction and anarchy in the society. They are not prescribed in order to harm people, but the contrary.
Allah Most High says:
�In the law of retaliation there is (saving of) life to you, O you men of understanding� (Surah al-Baqarah, 179).
Due to the idea behind these various penalties being imposed not to make an individual suffer, rather to create a better society as a whole, the Shariah laid down certain strict rules and conditions in order for the punishment to be established or enforced. These strict conditions can be seen in all the various penalties that have been imposed.
The case with theft and stealing is the same in that certain conditions have been laid down for the penalty to be imposed. If the conditions are met, only then will such a penalty be enforced.
Conditions for the penalty of theft:
The following are the conditions which must be met in order to establish the penalty of theft:
1) The one who steals is sane
2) He has reached puberty
3) He steals equivalent to the amount (nisab) or more. The Nisab is one Dinar or ten Dirhams (i.e. 4.374 grams of gold). The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:
�There is no cutting (of hands) for stealing that is less then ten Dirhams� (Musnad Ahmad).
Sayyidah Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that �The hands were not cut in the time of the Messenger of Allah for stealing worthless things� (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah).
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that: �The hand of a thief was not cut off during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) except for stealing something equal to a shield in value� (Sahih al-Bukhari, 6792, & Sahih Muslim, 1685).
A shield was worth one Dinar at that time, as narrated by Ibn Abbas in Sunan Abu Dawud & Sunan Nasa�i.
4) He steals the article from a place that meets the requirements of security and safeguarding. This security is considered when the article is safeguarded by a guard or by it being locked in a place.
5) The article is in the ownership of another person
6) There is no confusion in it (as to whether he took it by way of theft or for some other reason).
7) It was stolen secretly (not by force, etc�).
If any of the above conditions are not met, then the penalty of theft will not be established.
Allah Most High says:
�As to the thief, male of female, cut off his or her hands. A punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime� (Surah al-Ma�idah, 38).
As far as the evidence and testimony is concerned, stealing will be established by self admittance once or by the testimony of two adult males. The witnesses will be asked the details of the incident, as not to make an error.
A person�s hand is not amputated when he steals less than the equivalent of 4.374 grams of gold, from place that does not meet the requirements of security, something that is useless, something that is in general ownership such as water in the river, sticks from the wood, etc�, food that rots very quickly such as milk, meat, fruits, etc�, articles that are unlawful due to the possibility that one had an intention of getting rid of it, such as musical instruments.
The penalty:
The penalty for the one who steals (when the above conditions are met) is that his/her right arm is amputated. If a person steals a second time, his left foot is amputated; if a third time, then he will be imprisoned until he repents, but no further amputation will take place.
Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says:
�I feel guilty in front of Allah if I leave him without hands (i.e. amputating both) by which he eats, and feet, by which he walks� (Sunan Darqutni, al-Bayhaqi & Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba).
The above are some of the important aspects relating to the penalty of theft. It has been primarily based on the famous Hanafi work al-Ikhtiyar li ta�lil al-Mukhtar, P341-351).
And Allah knows best
BFP explain this
Punishmentsin the Bible
(See CROSS, etc.) Death was the punishment of striking or even reviling a parent (Exodus 21:15; Exodus 21:17); blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14; Leviticus 24:16; Leviticus 24:23); Sabbath-breaking (Numbers 15:32-36); witchcraft (Exodus 22:18); adultery (Leviticus 20:10); rape (Deuteronomy 22:25); incestuous and unnatural connection (Leviticus 20:11; Leviticus 20:14; Leviticus 20:16); man stealing (Exodus 21:16); idolatry (Leviticus 20:2). “Cutting off from the people” is ipso facto excommunication or outlawry, forfeiture of the privileges of the covenant people (Leviticus 18:29). The hand of God executed the sentence in some cases (Genesis 17:14; Leviticus 23:30; Leviticus 20:3; Leviticus 20:6; Numbers 4:15; Numbers 4:18; Numbers 4:20). Capital punishments were stoning (Exodus 17:4); burning (Leviticus 20:14); the sword (Exodus 32:27); and strangulation, not in Scripture, but in rabbinical writings.
The command (Numbers 25:4-5) was that the Baal-peor sinners should be slain first, then impaled or nailed to crosses; the Hebrew there (hoqa) means dislocated, and is different from that in Deuteronomy 21:22 (thalitha toli), Deuteronomy 21:23. The hanged were accounted accursed; so were buried at evening, as the hanging body defiled the land; so Christ (Galatians 3:13). The malefactor was to be removed by burial from off the face of the earth speedily, that the curse might be removed off the land (Leviticus 18:25; Leviticus 18:28; 2 Samuel 21:6; 2 Samuel 21:9). Punishments not ordained by law: sawing asunder, and cutting with iron harrows(Isaiah, Hebrews 11:37; Ammon, in retaliation for their cruelties, 2 Samuel 12:31; 1 Samuel 11:2); pounding in a mortar (Proverbs 27:22); precipitation (Luke 4:29; 2 Chronicles 25:12); stripes, 40 only allowed (Deuteronomy 25:3), the Jews therefore gave only 39; the convict received the stripes from a three-thonged whip, stripped to the waist, in a bent position, tied to a pillar; if the executioner exceeded the number he was punished, a minute accuracy observed in 2 Corinthians 11:24.
The Abyssinians use the same number (Wolff, Travels, 2:276). Heaps of stones were flung upon the graves of executed criminals (Joshua 15:25-26; 2 Samuel 18:17); to this day stones are flung on Absalom’s supposed tomb. Outside the city gates (Jeremiah 22:19; Hebrews 13:12). Punishment in kind (lex talionis) was a common principle (Exodus 21:24-25). Also compensation, restitution of the thing or its equivalent (Exodus 21:18-36). Slander of a wife’s honour was punished by fine and stripes (Deuteronomy 22:18-19).
@ *FP, I already stated my position in this post below. It wasnt detailed, I couldnt be bothered.
November 28, 2010 at 1:08 am
Next two weeks from now, *FP will put up a post quoting someone from here, ” Muslims in Barbados want to chop off poor shirtless black man hand for stealing cornbeef”. or something along those lines look out for it. Thats the only way they get so much posts. I gone .
See you *Fp at the Light Airplane Club’s open day. I’ll be looking out for you.
Ian Bourne says “I do believe in Capital Punishment but let the offended do the execution, by gun or lethal injection – hanging or electric chair seems cruel. Yes if a family member was murdered then I would want Capital Punishment – ”
So i guesss the world should just determine whats cruel and whats civilised based on what Ian Bourne thinks!
As a parent who’s child attends Al Falah School, and who attended public schooling in Barbados…I can attest to the fact that Al falah’s curriculum is no different to what we learnt at school… in the entire week there is one hour long class for islamic studies where the children are taught stories of the prophets, islamic deportment and way of life.. Manners and Respect are a big part of the curriculum too. Just look at the track record of students from Al Falah after Common Entrance Results are released.
As for defending ouselves.. wouldn’t you want to if you way of life was constantly attacked and disgraced by the media all over the world. I thought it was easier now than when i was a child but it seems like ‘muslims in barbados’ will always be looked at as outsiders in a bajan society.
Hi think,
Ya, we know the Old Testament says that stuff, but then we had the New Testament and the reformation. Haven’t seen many Jews stoning adulterers lately either.
So, are you saying that Islam needs a Reformation?
Thanks!
i agree with everything that THINK said on stealing and I’m not elaborating no more .
why are u so full of hate when it comes to islam ??
At the end of the day regardless of your religion you will be only judged by people according to your character
So bfp admits that their was a period of time in the past when God prescribed certain punishments for certain crimes. The Prophets and the righteous people and the communities of that time had no problems with these laws. It was accepted. If it was accepted then why make such a fuss if Muslims accept certain laws now. Were those communities and GOd almighty barbaric then? Were Jews of the past barbaric before this reformation?
A bunch of intellectual fanatics they are. Just read the above.
And, Ian has been professional in his contributions. Why are you resorting to smear, innuendo and slander? Is this how “honorable” Muslims supposed to react?
Let the hate that festers inside the hateful consume them until they are alone.
Islam is a religion of deceit, domination and hate.
Ah bfp thats the beauty of Islam. The beautiful teachings of God which are perfectly suited to man’s nature can never be reformed by man. The creation can never reform what the Creator and Inventor revealed. This is what differentiates Islam from the rest of the religions.
Thanks!
Hi Think,
The punishments were barbaric. They still are. Closer to home, walk to a certain spot in Bridgetown and you will stand where three slaves were burned alive as punishment for escaping.
But our society has generally progressed since then. Your Islamic values would be a regression, in my humble opinion.
Islam does seem to be quite incompatible with a free and democratic society.
guys it doesnt make any sense getting worked up about all this..
if the girl has her belief in her religion so be it.
non muslims in bim does got them little 3 year olds gyrating on one another…
i think thats a bigger issue.
we does got people who does get breed jus so them cud get extra welfare money
Ian i always looked upto you… but this incident has truly let me down…
If you want to debate something… or create a story out of something… do it with a mature adult … the girl might be mature according to her religion.. but it quite sad to see how you could make this issue based on what an under age girl said.
Come on Ian … this has your talent looking like utter nonsense.
and about committing crime and a punishment being carried out on them
those guys that burn campus trendz…
the type of stuff i heard that people wanted to do to them…
o god boy..
and these people didnt muslims
they were 100% black bajans
What Ian said is correct. Only those burying their heads in the sand could see otherwise.
Concerning the people who “breed to get welfare money”(your opinion), perhaps you are not aware of the Muslims’ modus operandi on the British welfare system and why this same system had to be revamped.
The action of those foolish boys who carried out that act is kids play when compared to daily killings in the Middle East
you’re changing things around now to just speaking about Chaos which is being waged in the name of a religion that granted shares different views to us in the western world but at the same time, these peoples intentions are not barbarism or chaos, the general consensus… something that most all humans want.. is a semblance of peace.. there will never be true peace, but the semblance of it is enough. Religion is usually made on the grounds of giving people something to hope for, something worth living for.. something more than ourselves…. the extremists that spearhead the horrors in the middle east are not the people that you might see here. They are not people who deserve to live… they are engines of hate who enjoy chaos. From every culture race and creed we see extremist agents of chaos.. there just so happens to be a lot of hate in that part of the world because of things that we may not understand. SO instead of discriminating and writing these people off we should embrace them and try to understand in the deepest sense.. who they are and why they do the things that they do.
Religion always ends up being abused for personal vendetta, or personal preference. Just because their justice system is different does not mean they deserve the term barbarian.. As far as the mistreatment of women, I believe that must be rectified, but first those people need to find peace in their hearts before they can contemplate change for the better so we may all live in a “more civilized world.” -Meanwhile, the UN votes for the allowance of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender execution.– Priorities people….
forget the middle east.. we are talking abt barbados
black indian christian and muslims in barbados
we talking about our issues not theirs
BFP wanna pick on this girl for having her views.. what im trying to say is what people wanted to do to the campus trends guys was what islamic law would have allowed, probably not everything.. cause some the things i heard were brutal.
and these people were black non muslims
so its ok to have an insane mind to do cruel things depending on the situation?
@ politics.. you live on barbadian soil? how much time of your life you live around typical bajans? you guys have a personal agenda here with this story…
what i am trying to say is that if you guys have an idea how much people in barbados would want inhumane penalties for people who commit crimes.
Mr. Bourne in one of his posts above claims that that Muslim community is twisting his words. Mr. Bourne you are rather full of yourself. A handful of people on here posting and you generalise it as the entire community? Do you really think in your pompous mind that people care what you say?
I don’t care what you say so long as I said it, next?
ASTROTURFING ALERT
The following names are being used by one person…
surprise surprise, uneducated bourne, evangelical panty, rufus, 387
That person is now banned and all previous posts have been deleted.
BFP Editor
for all u ppl who criticise muslims for wearing hijab and stuff……….face the facts….i have many black friends who tell me they hate when men look at them and say for example ” gurl u got a sweet a**” etc and all other rude statements..well this is the same reason why many yrs ago the law of hijab came…that is y there is less cases of rape in islam in barbados than in any other religion
tHE Muslim School scares me
I SHOULD NOT BE MADE TO FEEL this level of discomfort in my own country –given my culture
what is going to happen a few years from now
These muslim people always want a separate state because they dont integrate dont matter what. They support no nation except Islam. They are not nationalistic to Barbados
@KISSMYA …….wat are u talkin about wen u mean not nationalistic………..muslims have been living here for many years and there have no major incidences of hatred or dirty play…..instead the contributions made have been for the good of the contry…and the muslims here aint wanna rule the country…jus practicing religion
@ian bournee….u were askin bout if the marrige n suitor n dat stuff!!!wud i wud answer u
The marrige is out of the girls own choice!!!its not forced r arranged!!!!N the person she gets married 2 is usualli older dan her bout 2 years but dat doesnt mean he is 50 r 60!!!my parents r married n they r jus 3 years apart!!!dats jus used as an example!!!NEwayz dis BFP ting iz relli corroptin ppl mind!!!!i betta get off dis!!!
persons on this site are unable to comprehend
n ian anoda point!!!!muslim dnt discriminate women!!!!nor r we muslim women opressed!!!!!so get dat as a fact!!!
I am actually more appalled at the level of English these Muslims girls are demonstrating in their responses here. If this is the standard taught at the Muslim school, it deserves merely on that basis to be closed.
Two thumbs way up for “use of english” 😉
As far as i’m concerned ,there is no set standard for writing on blogs. If one chooses to write standard english, Bajan or even text messaging, that is the person’s choice. Its quite tedious to write standard english on a keyboard.At least for me.
Blame ya fellow teachers, cos dem bajan teachers is d ones dat does teach dem english. by d way, u trying to tell me dat d retired headteacher of “westberry” primary cant teach?
Another non-issue, NEEXXT.
IAN BOURNE should join the gym and lose some of that fat instead of sitting at the computer and typing utter nonsense whilst eating fry foods and chocolates for comfort….just my thought….
*5 THUMBS UP*
1. yesterday, a Muslim man was robbed and killed whilst doing his work in the country. is killing an elderly man with a family and a life justifiable? if your grandfather was robbed and murdered, would you not want the murderer punished???? and now in this case, wouldn’t you think that beheading the murderer is the best punishment?
if Barbados enforced HARSHER penalties for criminals, the rising crime level will be dealt with. maybe they should take a page out of the harsh Shariah laws. it’s the only way people will learn.
2. marriage in islam is quite simple. if a male or a female are interested in each other, they arrange a meeting with each other which also includes the parents. if they are attracted to each other, marriage takes place. if they do not want to marry each other, they have the right to say no. the parents should not force their child to marry someone. ISLAM STATES THAT A WOMAN SHOULD NOT BE FORCED INTO MARRIAGE WITH ANYONE.
but, sometimes parents are ignorant and force their daughters to marry a man, for reasons that are not justifiable. you cannot generalise this to every Muslim family. in every religion, ethnicity, gender, country, there are some people that behave “tyrannical”.
the same way you are stereotyping Muslims in Barbados, the same way the Muslims can stereotype the non-muslims. if one non-muslim robbed and killed a Muslim, we should then generalise and say that ALL non-muslims are robbers and killers. do you see how cruel this judgement is?
oh and Islam has the lowest divorce rate out of any religion in the world.
3. Hijab protects females from being harassed by the sick perverts that are in the world today. do you know how shameful it feels when a woman walks down the road and a strange man is looking at her body. this leaves a woman feeling extremely violated. the hijab prevents this from happening. no woman wants a strange man to “check out her goods”.
4. the english used by the girl in the picture is the same english used by ALL youth in this century. don’t just assume that because she is from a Muslim school that they are teaching bad english there. a Harrison College student will type the same way. so are they teaching bad english there too?
5. stop picking on the Muslims in Barbados. they are the ones that provide items for many persons that cannot afford to buy things with cash, whether it be clothes, furniture or household items. and might i add, they pay back at an interest free rate too.
@SUPER WOMAN; At least we know who I am, and thus my words carry, ahem – WEIGHT? But even if I diet you will still be ugly, inside & out. Be that as it may none of these alleged Islamic responders have ever answered ONCE to concerns or queries I laid out, how credible is THAT? Saying something is lies is not refutation it is INFANTILE, show FACTS!
In response to this: No one up to now is answering the sad and crazy question how a li’l 14 year old girl sees nothing wrong with dismemberment as Punishment.
you are targeting a 14 year old MUSLIM girl who is not afraid to state her views. i’m sure if you ask any NON MUSLIM if they believe in harsh penalties for crime, you will get the same reply as the 14 year old muslim. but if that happened, you will just dismiss it. they’re not muslim, so they’re no threat to society. but when a MUSLIM says their views, you chastise their beliefs.
teenagers are still developing views of this world, be them right or wrong. this is a 14 year old girl we are talking about. she is still learning about the rights and wrongs of life.
Ian Bourne many points have been addressed on this page, so dont try fooling anyone. You are fixed in your views so it does not matter to you what anyone says. But you know what, your thoughts and comments arent bothering Muslims nor those interested in Islam. It is strange that you can refer to someone as infantile. Some annonymous person insults you and you have to resort to calling them ugly. I cant think of anything more infantile than that. It seems you have some issues with your self esteem.
IAN BOURNE I dont care about your point of view so your opinions means nothing to me…just simply telling you to join the gym because you are over weight…anyways I have to go…need to maintain my perfect sexy body…if you know what I mean…oooops you dont..:)…
Most of the bloggers on here have answered your questions but have you Ian bourne answered ours.
Are you going to the muslim school to find out what they are teaching and then come back and give us a detailed report . Remember your the one that started the debate first it’s only fair you finish it.
Mr. Bourne, first of all I am not a scholar of Islam. In Islam there are numerous rules, some seem harsh, others seem odd. What I can guarantee to you is that it is The Way of Life, not a Religion.
As a follower of Islam you must be, compassionate and kind. However if there are people who are attacking your faith or an act of the faith, then you as a Muslim have the right to oppose and in some instances, go to war.
What I have noticed in this post so far is that ALL the non-muslims in this post do not understand Islam.
If a person commits an act which is a Major sin such as, fornication, adultery, murdering, stealing, lying, cheating, gambling, backbiting then one MAY be subjected to Capital punishment under the Islamic Court. Capital punishment in Islam however is not to be used as the only reform for a criminal. There are numerous rulings which leads to this method of punishment.
In Islam there are extremists, outlaws, hypocrites, misguided, and the like, just like in any other faith. The fact is, the small few, just happens to spoil it for the rest of us. These “Muslims” sometimes do not even know that they are in breach of their faith, and guess what, it’s more dangerous for them than the ones they affect. Allah will deal with them in His way. What more severe punishment is there?
You must remember that we Muslims believe that Islam is the one and only faith. All of the Prophets – Adam, Moses(Moosa), Abraham(Ibrahim), Jesus(Isa) and the last and final Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) came with the same call to faith – “None is Worthy of Worship but Allah!”. When the final Prophet came to this world it became – “None is Worthy of Worship but Allah, Muhammad is His messenger”. All of the other Prophets did spread the true faith – Islam – but the Books revealed to them were changed to the point that they bear no relation to the original, hence Allah sent Muhammad (Peace be upon him) the last messenger, and by divine revelation the Holy Qur’an – The Word of Allah through the Prophet. His mission was to convey Allah’s message and show the people the Way of Life.
Now you see we do not consider Jesus as God, neither do we consider that he “died” for our sins. Every man/woman that was sent to this Earth MUST answer for his/her sins before Allah, even the Prophets.
A Muslim firmly believes that we were just sent to this world to be tested. A follower/believer will be tested harsh and hard to see if his Iman (Strength of Islamic Faith) in his heart is enough to keep him on the straight path. We are merely Allah’s servants, and we will be tested by Allah in this world for the hereafter. Although, there is still no guarantee that we shall acquire Jannah(Paradise). It is only by Allah’s Will and Mercy that this can happen.
With that in mind I hope you do understand Islam a little more.
Get you, but you should not impose your religion or beliefs on another person and then kill them if they do not follow them , that is taking away a person’s basic rights and make you nothing but a dictator
”Barbados is not immune from the same type of problems being experienced in the UK”
Your absolutely right…one of these problems is the prevalence of right-wing extremist individuals (like yourself) singling out a particular faith group, inciting fear and hatred and harming strong community relations that already exists.
I really need to ask the BFP something, what do you hope to achieve by posting articles like this? Are you hoping for a rise in anti-Muslim sentiments? for the Barbadian community to turn against Muslims? How are you any different from any other radical or extremist group out there?
To Ian Bourne: send me your email address, for every negative report out there on Muslims, i can send you double positive contributions Muslims have played in society. Did you report on UWI Cave Hill’s Islamic Society massive fundraising drive for the people of Haiti…what about the fundraising drive for a non-Muslim student who needed funding to undergo surgery….or its charity event for Africa…. or its participation in various other activities and debates?
Seems to be you’ve been brainwashed by right-wing views and wish to remain ignorant instead of seeking knowledge and understanding…
@Reyhana – I said earlier in this thread, I welcome any positive/opposing views on Islamic society; my e-mail is under both “Advertise With Us” & “Contact Us Now!”
To mary clyne
to those that kill in the name of Islam are not true muslims and
nobody can impose their religion on another.
i totally agreed with IAMAMUSLIM and REYHANA!!!
And as for IAN BOURNE!!!! If u would really like to know more about the religon ISLAM or about AL-FALAH SCHOOL you are free to contact the school and make an appiontment!!!
Honestly this stuff is depressing how you guys are attacking one another.
Non muslims! , at any point of your life in barbados did a muslim ever loook down on you or made you feel like dirt?
Muslims!,at any point of your life in barbados did a christian ever loook down on you or made you feel like dirt?
Can we guys just quit with all the religious attacks?
Our country has bigger issues.
if a 14 year old girl sees nothing wrong with parts of your body being decapitated depending on the crimes u commit we should not react in this manner.
If the law makers still saw it this way probably our crime rate would not be heading in the same direction as some of our other caribbean countries.
Should Muslims who leave their religion be killed?
The truth outs. Be Fair shares the values that thieves should have their hands chopped off.
Most civilized people find those punishments reprehensible, barbaric and cruel.
What we have is a clash of values and I don’t think that Islamic values should be allowed where they trample other people’s basic human rights.
Build a Christian church in Mecca and I’ll listen to your talk about Islamic tolerance.
& what happens when the Muslims try and build a Mosque in New York City?
People are all prejudiced because of what the media has done, granted there has always been a prejudice of Christian to Muslim, just grow up.
These people give lip service to “tolerance” and “being fair” – when they are in the minority.
TO BE FAIR, you talk about building a church in Mecca, but that’s nothing! Just let anyone catch you with a Bible; then, you can see how “beautiful”, “fair” and “civilized” Islam really is.
BFP,
You didn’t publish my last submission; any reson?
Hi Politics,
The last thing we have from you is the one above at 2010/11/30 at 3:38 pm (UTC).
We’ve checked the spam bucket and there’s nothing in there from you. If there was something else it didn’t make it. Word to the wise: When you are composing a comment at BFP or anywhere that is more than a few words, do it offline and then cut and paste so you have it in case it doesn’t take.
We’ve learned the hard way here as we used to write stories online and then see them disappear after an hour of work. AAAAAHHHH!!!!!
are any of you that think chopping off someone hand for teefing against putting a person neck in a noose and popping dem neck? or passing electric current through them until they are dead or injecting them with poisons until they are dead? how about 10 strokes with a whip that leaves deep cuts and bruises?
Thanks, BFP
Sharia Law? Nothing wrong with it!
Saudi Arabia: Man sentenced to 70 lashes for turning on Bluetooth near a women’s shopping centre
He says he didn’t even know it was on. But the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice has to be vigilant against the mixing of the sexes. Imagine what fun they’ll have in American malls, once Sharia gains a sufficient foothold here. Sharia Alert from the Kingdom of the Two Holy Places: “Beware: Dangers of bluetooth in Saudi…,” from Emirates 24/7, December 1 (thanks to Emad):
A Saudi man is to be lashed 70 times with the whip after he was caught using the Bluetooth feature in his mobile phone near a women’s shopping centre, the London-based Saudi Arabic language daily Alhayat reported Wednesday.
Members of the feared Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice grabbed the man after suspecting him when he came close to a women’s market in the central town of Taif, the paper said.
They handed him over to the authorities after they checked his mobile phone and found that the Bluetooth option was in operation, it said.
“He was shocked when the court in Taif sentenced him to two months in prison and 70 lashes on charges of harassing women,” it said.
“He told court he did not know that the Bluetooth in his phone was on and that using it is a crime in Saudi Arabia…the court gave him 30 days to appeal.”
http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/beware-dangers-of-bluetooth-in-saudi-2010-12-01-1.323699
Lashes…for using BLUETOOTH?
Ummmm…
Muslims, anything to say? Because that seems awful backward, especially for technology!
they wont repley the wool is over they eyes soon all will be reveiled in 2011
hi BFP, sorry about that. realised i probably shouldn’t have used that word shortly after posting it. ‘wants dismissing’ would suffice just as adequately. don’t worry. shan’t bother u again for some time!! 🙂
Ok, let me get this all straight.
This is amazingly interesting to see what BFP has done to my comment. First of all BFP what’s with the headline? So what? I made it pretty clear there’s nothing wrong with it. Did you even read on to see why? Seriously, think about it. If I knew that my precious hand would be chopped off for stealing HECK I’d never steal a thing! But those who get one month in jail, are still able to commit that crime OVER and OVER again. Make Sense? No. Imagine women and men both muslims and non-muslims if your husband or wife knew that if they commited adultery/cheated on you that they would be stoned or given 60 lashes etc. do you think they’d cheat on you? No way brother! You see? In those sort of countries crime rates are at minimum. Which is good : )
I didn’t mean to sound harsh when I said “there’s nothing wrong with it” but BFP you made me sound like i was wrong when i’m not. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.
Ian Bourne, you disgust me. I may be 14 but heck i’m smarter than you. Seriously? Forced marriages? I as a muslim myself, can tell you. In Islam there are no forced marriages. A girl has to agree in order for the marriage to be accepted. Don’t be stubborn Ian Bourne, it makes you look stupid.
As for YOU BFP, i’m appalled at the situation. How would I have known you were going to pick out MY comment and make a whole new blog about it? That’s utterly horrible for you to do to someone. Better yet a minor?????? Your suppose to be respecting the fact someone made a comment and leave it there.
As for the person above me, lashes for using bluetooth??? What the hell? I’ve never heard of that one lol. Of all things people make up, something like that?? Well even if it’s true, i’m terribly sorry. But Shariah law has nothing regarding Bluetooth so whoever beat that man is just Insane. Seriously. No muslim can do that stuff. Believe me.
And for whoever said we have bad English, my fellow classmates may not write in Standard English on the PC but I like too. But there’s nothing wrong with it because anyone/ bajan that would come here, would use some form of slang. It’s the Internet people. That doesn’t mean our school teaches bad English. That just shows how fast you people are to judge.
And yeah I agree with everyoe, if any of you have doubts about our schools, stop being a lazy bum and get up and find out yourself, contact the school, talk to our teachers and find out the TRUTH instead of what outsiders opinions are.
And hey BFP even though you may have tried to make a mockery of my comment which by far shows that you are against my religion that’s all, I still forgive you. It’s in every muslim’s nature : )
Bye once again. GirlInThePic#2
All else aside Mr Bourne, baiting, reposting, insulting and calling for the real identity of a 14 year old is bullying and inexcusible from a grown man. You are acting like a child and I would not trust you with anyones, let alone entertain what you think is right and wrong for other people’s.
Now why would I yet anyone in their right minds, give him my real identity.
It’s idiotic really.
Dear BFP and readers
As my name implies, I converted to Islam from Christianity. Having encountered a range of reactions since embracing Islam, I strongly believe that more opportunities should be given for inter-faith sharing in a public domain. There seems to be widespread misunderstanding or ignorance about minority religious beliefs (not just Islam) among Barbadians. What is more distressing is that we as a society are not very tolerant of minority groups, religious or otherwise. We must stop comparing ourselves as a society to the “worst cases” and start using “best practices” from around the world. I would certainly hate for Barbados to reach the levels of hysteria and Islamophobia that exist in other countries. Name calling and disrespect will only garner more of the same. Let us all then continue to respectfully share views and please let us practice responsible journalism.
*Bump* Bringing up the topic of ‘Arranged Marriages’ again. What really is an Arranged Marriage anyway???
I think Ian is getting this arrange thingy all mixed up. He thinks that when Daddy and Mummy says “Hey guess what?? We found someone for you” that means……….you have to marry that person regardless??? Well Mr.Bourne, Im here to teach you something new today.
You know how you guys have something called ‘blind dates’. When family members or close friends think they have found someone ‘suitable’ for you and they ‘arrange’ a date so both of you can meet, see each other, talk, get to know one another and blah blah blah…and at the end of the day you decide wheather you want to meet again (because both of you hit it off so well) or say bye bye (because you were just not ‘clicking’).
Well same goes for us Muslims. When Parents or other family members or close friends finds a suitable person they ‘arrange’ a meeting for the couple (with their consent first). The couple would talk and get to know one another and so on.
Now the decision is totally up to the couple.
But now this is where some parents…(I repeat some parents because not all do it ) bring in all the cultural thingy and ‘force’ the child to marry for whatever reason and this is TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAM. This is where people start to believe that this is Islam because its happening in a Muslim family. This is why you should do researches and find out the differences between Islam and culture. Besides in Islam, you MUST seek the consent of the man and woman (the ones that are thinking of getting married) ,without their consent no marriage can be valid and thats a shariah law. Even if Mummy and Daddy consent but the child doesnt then the marriage cannot take place and why? Because its totally up to the couple and there’s no force in Islam. And even if the child is married through force the parents would be guilty of commiting a sin.
So Mr. Ian, I hope you understand our way of Arranging a Marriage…its actually arranging meetings and so on so the couple can decide if they want to tie the knot.
This is our way of life….and we dont want it any other way.
<>
So yeah…it will be her choice totally unless she has parents who are so freakin’ cultural and unmindful about the rights of their child.
And there’s no age limits. I mean come one now….do you have age limits in dating???? Some men prefer older ladies and some prefer younger. Some ladies perfer older men and some prefer younger. Its a personal preference.
**When she marries, will it be her choice or will it be arranged? In either case, how close is the suitor to her own age?**
In the above post I was replying to this comment made by Ian Bourne.
Lets try and build a mosque in the vatican city, oh wait we have more sense than to even desire such a thing. Why? its called respect for a nother religions cantonement area. If u dont know what a cantonement area is go and figure it out yourself. If you build a church in mecca, who the hell is gonna use it. It will only become like all the other churches around the world where people dont practce and they fall into ruins, whats the point in the first place. Build a church where people are actually gonna use it…makes sense? can u go to the defense force HQ and build whatever u want? no , neither can I im a born bajan aswell, although of Indian descent and im a muslim, but this makes me less bajan and subject to scrutiny right? for the comment above who thinks “we should watch muslims” go right ahead we dont live in no gated community like in clermont etc come and watch i might even let u play on my football team we aint got nain to hide except for maybe u kno the dangerous indian food dat gine burn out yuh intestines wid all dem spices, but why do u like my somosas and bharfee so bad for then????
One 14year old girl make a mistake and all of wunna wanna jump pon she back dah mek sense. so many 14 year old dat are not muslim or indian but rather local bajan and christian duz get on wid bare debaucherry u duz hear ppl talk bout is christianity fault no…daz so dumb..I duz actually jus hope dat some a d youtes go church more often or somewhere where dey gine learn some moral sense….wherever dat maybe cuz even if dema itn coming to Islam if they got a good heart it gine mek d future better….as I always say dem only got 2 types of people good and bad and that extrapolates to all populations within all demographics.
I once hear a bajan girl who was less dan 14 years old say infront she mudda…”Dat indian boy hair look so sweet i wud love to have a baby form he to come out wid pretty hair” and i was like do u even kno me why do u want me to be a sperm donor for ure child so that u can play with his sweet dougla hair….wow dat makes so much sense
plain and simple say “If you build a church in mecca, who the hell is gonna use it”
No one is going to use it because non-Muslims are not allowed to set foot in the city of Mecca. If they try they are subject to attack, arrest and even death.
“Nothing wrong here” says plain and simple.
And the deception continues while thousands of Islamist terror attacks take place every year around the world. The terrorists say they’re doing it for Allah and because the Koran says to. The apologists say they misunderstand their own Muslim religion even as Saudi Arabia continues to export militant Imams around the world to preach political islam and violence.
And the deception continues.
one of the other muslim girl commenters says that the Saudi religious police are not muslim and are insane.
“As for the person above me, lashes for using bluetooth??? What the hell? I’ve never heard of that one lol. Of all things people make up, something like that?? Well even if it’s true, i’m terribly sorry. But Shariah law has nothing regarding Bluetooth so whoever beat that man is just Insane. Seriously. No muslim can do that stuff. Believe me.”
Take a little trip over there and say that to their face sweetheart. See what happens next.
so what dose MR.(whats his name) Ian somthingamajig whatever has to say now?after a “14”year old degrade you???????@ Girl Who Wrote The Original Comment …..you go girl!!!love ya!
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let me answer muslim girl here: First atholics are NOT cHRISTIANS and Priest are Catholics Christians have PASTORS !
Mohammed and muslims only existed for 7-9 hundred years or so !
Democratic Government Systems were Started by THE GREEKS !!!
We do not fear Muslims cause we have conquered before Ever Heard of the Crusades Richard The Lion Heart !!!
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To Ian Bourne,
what you don’t understand is that its not liked in Islam for a women to marry someone much older than him. I can’t prove that it isn’t happening in the country of Barbados but, anyone who had done this to a woman is a sinner through true Islamic eyes. Parents cannot force their daughters to marry ANYONE based on real islamic law. It is written in the Quran, i have read it myself. You make some good points I admit but, you need to see it from a different perspective. Politicaians and preety much all people today think that Islam is SO extreme, read the Quran, it is nothing close to it. Everything said in the word of God through this holy book is taken to the absolute extreme, yes it is said that parents are to help with a women getting married but, she can turn anyone down. It all comes down to her. It is said in the Quran that nobody can force a woman to do anything, it is her decision. I am Canadian muslim girl, i don’t wear a hijab, I pray 5 times a day, and feel that I am on my way to be being a good muslim. I have read the Quran in a clear english text and have gone to religious classes for years. I can say that i know more than most.
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wait, question, who was it that conducted the coup in trinidad and tobago in 1990?
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Close down Religiousv Schools Religion has NO Place in SCHOOL… There can be scripture , BUT nOT RELIGION as it is man made .. If they want to study other BOOKS let them do it at home …Ban the coverings as FRANCE has : It has no place in a post 9/11 world as a measure of security and In the West we are majority ‘christian/catholic’ so y allow this !!!???? Would they and do they allow this in the Middle East and even CHINA!!!???
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Hammer them don’t believe the “islam is peace” nonsense, Islam and all the other religions of that awful anciet desert are babaric and anti-woman, anti anything that isn’t male dominated! Besides since arabic numbers that’s about all they’ve contributed to modern society anyway, silly barbarians. This is 2011 come into the friggin 21st century already!
I like your style Mr Boune !!! GO IAN
What utter tripe! Muslim barrows and Muslimas spew the same nonsense because they think kafirs don’t read the Koran and hadith. Mohamed was a liar, a looter, a rapist, a murderer, and a paedophile–not according to kafirs– according to the holy hadiths of Islam.
Mohamed beheaded 600 Jews in an afternoon then raped a 15 year -old girl. And Muslim acolytes who witnessed that wanted the world to know that about their perfect model of mankind.
14!!!! 5 years too old for a real prophet darling
What happens if a Muslim girl doesn’t want to be protected from rape with a hijab or burka? honor killings
In the original (not rewritten by Mohammad 600 years after Jesus) Bible Jesus is quoted as saying, “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.” Mathew 5:20 Jesus was speaking metaphorically, making a point about how serious sin is and how bad hell will be. Jesus was not saying to actually cut our hands off. But, Mohammad rewrote it to say Muslims should literally cut off people’s hands. That is a perversion of the truth.
If barbados authorities are so stupid to allow these deadly enemies of everything your country stands for, to be taking over your country,step by step, stealing away your freedom, while you stay passive like retards,you might have just gone insane.
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proud to be a muslim you are just talking”bull S” and george you are RIGHT to the point, read Who is allah by Soeren Kem august 23, 2007, there another article I will send later from a Canadian who attended a meeting with a Jews a christian and a muslim, why not ask muslims to start calling allah “Yahweh” the Bibical name for God, they won’t, the allah of islam is not the GOD OF THE BIBLE.
It is bloody presumptious of any woman – muslim or otherwise- to assume that every man who sees her face will want to rape her. Some are goddam ugly . So don’t cover up becuase of that reason please. Get over yourselves
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