Pilots give ultimatum to LIAT over press release statements

Leeward Islands Airline Pilots Association – Press release

P O Box 2313, St John’s, Antigua ♦ Tel: 246-243-2829 ♦ Fax:  246-562-2743
E-mail: lialpa@ifalpa.intranets.com
DATE:  15th June 2010

PILOTS GIVE LIAT MIDNIGHT DEADLINE TO RETRACT & APOLOGISE FOR STATEMENTS FILLED WITH DISHONESTY AND DECEIT

(St John’s, Antigua)     In a high-level meeting held at the Grantley Adams International Airport in Barbados on Tuesday 15th June 2010, LIAT’s Management was given an ultimatum by Leeward Islands Airline Pilots Association (LIALPA) to retract several statements made in its Press Release dated Monday 14th June 2010.

The pilots maintain that the statements made by LIAT were filled with outright deception and blatant lies.

In its release, the company stated:  “In July 2009, all disputed issues between LIAT and LIALPA including that of retroactive pay were discussed at a meeting of the Company’s three shareholder Prime Ministers held in St. Vincent. An agreement was reached between the parties on a course of action for resolving them.”

LIALPA categorically states that the above statement is false and further challenged LIAT’s management at the Tuesday morning meeting in Barbados to produce the evidence that such agreement was reached with regarding to retroactive pay.  As expected, the management could not provide such an agreement because no such agreement ever took place.

LIAT’s CEO further stated in the Company’s release that he “questioned the wisdom of initiating unwarranted industrial actions at a time when the regional and international economies are under such strains.”

LIALPA have indeed taken a look at the global situation and have noted the ongoing industrial action by pilots at Spirit Airlines in the United States due to a three-year old dispute over pay.  We have also noted what is happening in Canada, where there is pending industrial action by pilots at Air Canada Jazz because pilots have been working for an entire year without a contract.  The pilots also observed the recent strike action in the United Kingdom by cabin crew at British Airways due to a failure of talks over pay for three years.  Even closer to home, a few weeks ago, air-traffic controllers in Barbados took industrial action because of retroactive pay and working conditions.

All of the above conditions existed between one to three years, yet industrial action occurred.  In the case of LIALPA, disputes have being ongoing for some twelve (12) years.  The pilots are reminding the general public that they have showed restraint for far too long, especially in light of LIAT Management’s clear unwillingness to settle outstanding disputes amicably.

Even the Company’s CEO acknowledged in his recent statement that the airline has “over the last few weeks been able to sustain enviable levels of on-time performance.”  This clearly indicates the commitment being shown by the pilots, as they continued to go above and beyond the call of duty.  However, this commitment is not forthcoming from LIAT’s Management.

LIALPA remains deeply saddened at the recent posture taken by the Company at the Barbados June 15th meeting, where the CEO refused to go back to the public and retract its blatant lies and apologise for its deceitful statements.  Despite this, the pilots have still given the CEO until midnight to make the necessary retractions and apologies. If this midnight deadline is not met, then the pilots will have no other choice but to “withdraw enthusiasm and issue strong resentment” after showing twelve (12) years of restraint.

LIALPA’s position remains clear.  The Company must do the following:
1)    Pay all monies that are owed due to illegal deductions made from salaries.
2)    Settle all retroactive public holiday payments
3)    Address concerns about the status of current pensions deductions
4)    Sign-off on a new contract immediately following the arbitration judgment

Anything less is unacceptable.

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30 Comments

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30 responses to “Pilots give ultimatum to LIAT over press release statements

  1. Peltdownman

    Sorry, but an airline’s on-time performance should be the norm, and not as a result of employees going above and beyond the call of duty. This is typical Caribbean, isn’t it? Doing your job as it should be done is “going above and beyond”. Coming to work on time is “going above and beyond”. Taking the correct time for lunch is “going above and beyond”. Question it, and be told “It’s a cultural thing”. Unless the LIAPA knows that LIAT’s finances are so rudely healthy as to pay them what they want, they should keep their heads down. Certainly, to quote industrial action being taken by airline staff in other parts of the world as being justification to do so here is a real stretch. British Airways is teetering on the brink. If it goes as a result of industrial action by cabin crew, will that still justify LIAPA’s action?

  2. bimjim

    Reference Wanking Willie Walsh of BA, ask him and his Board now how much it would have cost him to simply conclude negotiations with his staff.

    At losses of UKP20 million a day (not to mention loss of good will, customers, and many other aspects vital to a service industry), I’m willing to bet my daily breakfast that particular number went by the window weeks ago.

    If BA collapses, it will not be because of unionised strikers justifiably standing up for their rights, it will be because of an intransigent, unsympathetic – and already very wealthy – Chairman, Board and CEO who really no longer have a connection with reality or the difficult job their employees have to endure. Nor do they appear to give a damn about either the employees – or about their ultimate bosses, the shareholders.

    To the subject at hand…

    LIALPA has been negotiating and trying to resolve real issues – under the same now-expired contract – for the last 12 years. The last contract took in excess of 10 years to conclude, and that also required industrial action to get management to “get real”.

    Current strikes around the world involve dissatisfied employees arguing about contracts expiring now or which expired less than two or three years ago. It is therefore to the credit of LIALPA that they have waited this long to take that last unwanted step and stop all commercial activity until management stop playing games and come to their senses.

    Typically, LIAT pilots are professional, qualified, punctual and hard-working… the “above and beyond” stuff is chasing after all the other components that make up an on-time departure and not just accepting the delays imposed on them by other Departments or influences.

    Pilots are not REQUIRED to chase after other employees – or anyone else. They can just do their pre-flight job and sit quietly in the cockpit, ready to depart, until the rest of the staff do what they have to do, close the doors and give them the OK, regardless of how much they are late. Go and ask management how much of those late departures are attributable to pilots… you won’t find very many (in LIAT’s very high number of daily scheduled departures).

    “Above and beyond” means watching the time and ensuring that other things are completed in time for a punctual departure.

    “Above and beyond” includes perhaps getting on the ground in Antigua or Barbados a few minutes early to make sure some small maintenance service is performed – a tyre change, oil or hydraulic check, whatever else, especially after an overnight and the aircraft has done several sectors since leaving a maintenance base.

    Just FYI, in the Caribbean the “cultural thing” will always be there, no matter what you – or anyone else – would like… just as the Africans protected their right to blow the vuvuzela – whether it annoys other people or not.

    The LIALPA Pilots have been making every effort to go “above and beyond”, ESPECIALLY in such poor industrial climate, to ensure that it is not their actions causing an industrial problem.

    After 12 years of negotiation by LIALPA and several years without a contract, anyone willing to place all the blame on the employees for a strike and pick at their bones has to be THE most complete braying human jackass.

  3. Peltdownman

    Yeah. And how many young pilots are queueing-up for these hard done-by LIAT jobs? ‘Nuff. Get real. Look at the economic climate that you’re operating in. LIAT pilots do very well thank you (still getting tax-free salaries in Antigua?). If companies can’t afford it, just like countries, they will have to cut to survive. As for Britsih Airways cabin crew, they are the moste overpaid and underworked employees in the aviation industry. A stand has to be taken against this vindictive behavior by that particular branch of Unite. If not BA will not withstand the competition long term.

  4. Peltdownman

    @bimjim

    Reference Wanking Willie Walsh of BA, ask him and his Board now how much it would have cost him to simply conclude negotiations with his staff
    ___________________________________

    You mean give in to years and years of more of this unethical behaviour hiding behind ridiculous labour laws. BA needs to cut costs NOW! Other employees have accepted the need to do it, but the cabin crew? No! They can’t operate a 747 with one less crew in the compliment. That means that they might have to be working when they could be helping themselves to the first class meals and stashing the miniatures for tonight’s party in wherever.
    Yours sincerely
    Braying Human Jackass

  5. bimjim

    Blah blah blah blah… go bray somewhere else.

  6. Peltdownman

    Well I guess you won that one!

  7. Monopoly

    BA has one to two extra staff on long haul flights more than many other airlines.

    Britain may be far better off breaking up BA into three of four seperate privately run companies.

    The sun has long since set on the British Empire and someone needs to inform The British Government, and the Board members and the unions of BA of this fact.

    It was no coincidence that the likes of Easy Jet, Ryan Air and other similar airlines have met the challenge of a lower cost, more reliable and friendly air service.

    A divested BA may be long overdue and very healthy for Britain and the British taxpayer.

  8. Peltdownman

    Just one thing, Monopoly, BA is a publicly listed company and has not been owned by the British government for more than 25 years, so just how it fits in as part of the British Empire is a bit of a mystery.

  9. Observer

    The background of the average LIAT pilot: This is often a person who never achieved anything while in primary or secondary school and was never made to work hard for anything in life. They were often spoilt rotten by upper middle class to wealthy parents who knew that these little brats they were going to send to flying school once they reached of age and after flying school they were going to get a job with LIAT/ BWIA. Most LIAT over the age of 40 fit this bill regardless from which corner of the region they originated from.

    So they have always been spoilt rotten and consequently they are relatively inflexible in their mindset. So come hell or high water they are going to make sure and go after what they want because even if the airline crashes they have a little nest egg that can look after their needs because daddy and grand pa bequeathed such to them.

    I call on the LIAT board of directors to do an Eric Williams – fire the bunch of aging and arthritic imbeciles and replace them with young West Indian pilots who had to struggle for what they have and who are hanging out with airlines such as JAL, Quantas, Singapore Airlines, Saudi Arabian Air, Air Jamaica and a number of other airlines around the world.

    I know a few pilots who work at these airlines who would love to return to a “secure job” in the region (a lot of these airlines are currently downsizing) while returning home to be close to family and friends.

    It is long overtime for the board of directors and the shareholders of LIAT to clean shop. Serendipity does not often present such a perfect opportunity to get rid of the “shit stirrers” while sending a strong message to the younger pilots.

    PS: The LIAT PR team is strongly encouraged to publish the annual tax-free salaries and perks that these over paid brats receive from the underserved Caribbean travelling public.

  10. Peltdownman

    Observer, you obviously know the situation well. As do I.

  11. Observer

    It is my business to. I know many of the characters involved.

  12. PltFlyng

    Observer, never before have I read such ill informed and biased garbage. You sir, clearly know nothing about the reality.

    Allow me to enlighten you sir.

    You called the pilots of Liat spoilt and inflexible. Sir, management has been giving the pilots run around for thirteen (13), years with regards to a new contract. In the downturn following Sept 11th the pilots made concessions and took no pay increases, not even the usual inflationary increase. Now, the airline has returned to profitability, gross income last year was nearly 300 million higher. Management has taken raises and bonuses, yet the pilots have been forgotten it seems.

    So, to arbitration LIALPA went, and negotiated in good faith and waited patiently for a new contract. In the mean time the company has at every turn used every means it can to delay and confound the arbitrators.

    There are many issues before the arbitrators to be decided on that will form part of our new contract going forward. However, these are not the only issues that the union and the company are contesting.

    Completely separate and in no way at all governed by the arbitration is the subject of holiday pay which is perhaps the biggest issue of contention of the last few days. The courts already ruled in the pilots favor on this matter in 2007. From the date of the ruling until June of this year liat has ignored this ruling and not paid the holiday pay it was obligated to pay. Furthermore, the company has taken the position that holiday pay from the date of the ruling in 2007 until present, is forfeit.

    This sir is unacceptable. I would suggest to you that if you took someone to court over monies owed and won judgment in your favor and that person refused to pay they might find themselves in jail. Alas though, the company is allowed to flagrantly disobey the orders of the court. Yet when LIALPA stands up for what is rightfully theirs (according to the court) they are condemned? In what world is this fair?

    It’s funny, that same ruling affected all flight crew meaning flight attendants as well. As of last month the flight attendants were paid all monies due from 2007 a fact that everyone conveniently neglects to mention. So, if you have 2 groups awarded something under a court ruling…what justification is there for paying one group and not the other?

    As for all those pilots working for JAL, Quanta’s, Singapore airlines, Saudi etc…As much as they might say they might like to return to the region to work, make no mistake about it. Not a single one of them will be willing to come home to work for a liat salary under liat working conditions. While they might talk about being close to family and friends, the reality is that they went where they did for the money and nothing else they are there by choice, hell many of them learned their trade right here in the same Liat before they left for greener pastures.

    One more thing, why is the salary of any liat pilot of interest to you? Unless you are currently employed in the industry in a similar capacity you sir are incapable of accessing whether or not that is a fair salary as you have no idea of the work input that is required to earn said salary.

    Why is it that people have no problems paying a lawyer a few hundred dollars for an hour of his time, or a doctor 60-70 dollars for a 10 minute visit but they balk at the idea that a professional airline pilot should be compensated his worth for his work.

  13. PltFlyng

    One more thing, with reguards to the following quotation ‘PS: The LIAT PR team is strongly encouraged to publish the annual tax-free salaries and perks that these over paid brats receive from the underserved Caribbean travelling public.’

    From every single monthly check that a pilot recieves is deducted the following:
    1 Income tax
    2. Social Security
    3 Medical benefit
    4. Education levy

    The above all goes to the goverment of antigua.

  14. Observer

    PF sorry if I struck a nerve. The fact remains that most of the pilots over the age of 40 are spoilt brats – have always been and will always be. Another fact is the average pilot’s salary is not a true reflection of the educational sacrifices that he/ she made compared to the same lawyer and/ or doctor that you refer to. The primary criteria for getting into flying school is not based on one’s academic prowess, it has more to do with the relative wealth of your family (a fact that you can not dispute). A LIAT pilots grosses anywhere from 20-28K/ month (BDS) – the final figure is dependant on the various allowances – meal/ laundry/ etc. Why should a pilot with 5 CXCs and 12 – 18 months of flying school take home twice as much as a Barbados Scholar who spent 7 years at university in order obtain his PhD? Especially when this PhD is being used in the national/ regional interest? Pilots should be grateful that they were born with a gold spoon in their mouths and thankful that their take home pay way out of proportion of the sacrifices that they have ever made at school. A spoilt brat is a kid who wants everything they see… and they cry and scream their heads off until they get it. Does that remind you of any of your colleagues?

  15. PltFlyng

    Observer, your figures are way way off. you are clearly dillusional.

    Using the current pay scale even if you took the highest end of the scale (14 year captain) and you somehow assumed that he was working 40 hours of overtime putting him at the 80 flight hrs/month legal limit (and i know of no captain doing that many hrs a month) they would still cap out well short of even the lower limit of the range u quoted (20k) and thats including the base pay and all allowances, the 40 hrs of overtime and even the COLA adjustment for a barbados based captain.

    I know, because i just sat down and ran the numbers in an excell spreadsheet.

    Now since the majority arent even at the salary cap, the will be earning less than that even. Furthermore that is just captains, what of first officers?

    Also, laundry allowance? seriously? You clearly have no idea of what you speak.

    lets see your math bring concrete figures to back up your claims instead of just making unsubstantiated claims.

  16. Observer

    PF: You have been outsmarted, why am I not surprised. I originally had EC in my draft however I intentionally changed this to BDS so that I can get you to clarify/ confirm and you took the bait. I have a pretty good idea how much the LIAT pilots are over paid and on average it is what I quoted in EC $. Right or wrong?

    So now onto my original point – why are these certified spoilt brats receiving much higher salaries that others who are twice as smart, work twice as hard and who have twice the responsibility.

    Who anointed pilots? After all our transport board drivers here in Barbados shuttle at least 10 times the volume of passengers over the course of a work day when compared to the average LIAT pilot. So don’t give me the lame and worn out excuse that “we are responsible for the lives of many persons over the course of our working day”.

    I notice that the point that I have repeatedly made that most over 40 pilots are spoilt brats – you conspicuously refuse to address. Why I am not surprised?

  17. Observer

    PF: I would still recommend that Dr. Gene Holder and his board take a leaf out of Dr. Eric Williams’ book when he dismissed 126 BWIA pilots in May 1978. Eric Williams stood up to the BWIA pilots because they tried to hold T&T to ransom – the same thing that the LIAT pilots are trying to do to the EC.

    Believe me when I say that the LIAT pilots have made no friends by their reckless and wonton actions and LIAT needs a good PR team in order to appraise the public that the pilots are just being true to colour – i.e. spoilt brats.

    Can you imagine that we are going through such tough economic times and these unconscionable prima donnas are trying to suck more money out of debt ridden LIAT and by extension our debt ridden region.

    Where the hell is this money coming from – the travelling public and the tax payers of Barbados, Antigua and St. Vincent.

    You make the dishonest point that the airline grossed 300m in 2009 and returned to profitability – you totally ignore the debt that the airline accumulated over the previous 35 years.

    LIAT via my tax dollars, I have been subsidizing after Court Line went into bankruptcy in August 1974. Read my lips: I AM FED UP and I intend to wage a campaign to ensure that LIAT’s spoilt brats are treated appropriately.

  18. PltFlyng

    Observer,
    Even in EC no pilot is making anything in the range of what you quotes. It tops below 20k EC sir. Even for a 14 year captain.

    To quote you
    “I notice that the point that I have repeatedly made that most over 40 pilots are spoilt brats – you conspicuously refuse to address. Why I am not surprised?”

    Nothing could be further from the truth sir, the average liat pilot is a hard working dedicated individual who has worked hard to get to where they are.

    Why is it that everyone is quick to blame crew, when we are the ones invariably going above and beyond the call to keep on schedule.

    The flight is late? no problem crew will rush to make up time en route, thats not enough no problem then the crew will forgo its meal hour to get back on schedule.

    Oh barbados is closed due to atc industrial action? ok no problem the crew will just pick up 2 extra sectors on top of its exsisting 7 to move as many people as we can.

    Whats that, we cant depart St. Thomas because they dont have a flight plan for us…yet again…well thats not a crew function but none the less maybe if we reduce our selfes to beggars and beg atc to file one for us, even though its not our job, and there just happens to be a nice controller working that day we can get out on time…or nearly on time.

    The list goes on and on. Flight crew gives and gives, and constantly go above and beyond their contract and no one cares, but the second we stand up for something that was legally awarded to us mind you, we are villians.

    If this is how we are to be treated, then i for one am done doing it, and will withdraw my enthusiasm and will be sticking to my contract and the civil aviation regulations in the strictist manner.
    -No more extensions of duty

    -No more rushing to checkin in under an hour because ops ‘forgot to call u earlier’

    -No more checking in and leaving without getting the weather because people cant be bothered to stop playing farmville. The ops manual says i need to recieve the weather, i will wait UNTILL i get it, as long as it takes.

    -When i cannot clear security because for the 100th time they have the wrong name on the paper work i wont be trapsing from the security desk back to the traffic office and spending 10-15 mins trying to find an agent to print me a new one. Not my job

    -Fuelers wont come to fuel the flight, not my job to find and flag them down. ill sit and wait.

    -Catering / cleaners / lav servicing still hasnt shown up after i have already called ops once to send them? no prob ill sit and wait.

    -Its 15 mins to departure and traffic hasnt boarded the flight yet? Why raise my blood pressure tyring to hurry them along, ill sit, wait and watch.

    -Oh i cant adjust my seat correctly and it wont even lock in postion because our seats are always broken because rather than the 1 standard cockpit seat we are supposed to have in reality we have like 4 and its a nightmare for maitance to keep them all working?…..no prob ill just wait here till you fix it, why give my self back problems.

    -No flight plan? ok no prob tower, call me back when you recieve one….ill just be sitting here till u do.

    -Crappy weather? no problem man instrument approaches all day easy.

    -Whats that, we have a technical problem…take it to antigua? why incur the additional risk no i think we should just snag it in he book here now.

    -Oh you need me to operate 3 extra sectors? My contract says that you only pay me for 2…will you pay for the 3rd? NO? ok no prob ill do two you will need to position another crew member to operate the last leg then.

    I think from now on untill we get what we are due, i will just be sitting in the cockpit, quietly 20 miniutes before departure with all checks done as my contract requires me to be…waiting and watching. It should be an interesting show.

  19. Observer

    PF: Are you suggesting that you are quite often a risk taker and many a time you do not follow protocol – this is a primary characteristic of someone who does not generally follow the rules.

    I would rather reach my destination an hour late as opposed to reaching my maker a few years early (compliments of a LIAT pilot). So take your time the next time my family and I are on board and please follow procedure.

    Then there is the T&T issue where you refuse to overnight there, although such a move will likely save the company a lot money. But hell no you Barbados based pilots (not the other cabin crew) oppose because you do not want to spend time away from family (yet hiding this issue behind the issue of safety).

    Salaries are easy to find out, I will have my friend confirm that most LIAT captains take home a minimum of 20K EC/ month.

    I know many older (> age 40) LIAT pilots and many of them were born with gold spoons in their mouths… if asked I can start naming names. Would refrain from such an action for the time.

  20. PltFlyng

    again, you got it wrong. Liat overnights 6 crews in trinidad every single night. Thats 12 pilots.
    We have no problem with that. we opposed the opening of a permanant base there. get your facts straight

    We do not take risks, we put safety first. It is the pilots that you have to thank for your saftey sir many times we have to stand up to operations and or managment to ensure that certains things are done or not done. Often times there issues that may arrise where upon consultation with engineers a crew may be told to defer to the end of the flight. Any one who has worked in the aviation industry is aware of this and when this is done there is a strict procedure to be adhered to make sure its done correctly and safely this is hardly unusuall. For example, the GPS is inoperative. It is not required for a flight with routing ANU-SKB-SXM-STT-SXM-ANU as you have several other traditional navigation aids available. If you are halfway through a flight and the GPS stops working, you can simply defer it and write it up upon conclusion of the flight in antigua if you so choose of course…a less enthusiastic pilot might say oh well what ever…and write it up in SXM and ground the airplane when really it doesent need to be.

    I have the hard figures in front of me right now sir, and i know them from…first hand experiance…to be correct.

    You speak of pilots making 20 – 28k BDS…or even as you claim EC. Sir, I know of only 1 such pilot (for sure) that is making a salary such as that right now. He doesn’t fly the line though, he sits in a office at company headquarters. For you see, management gets to award themselves that kind of salary while rallying the public against us because we dare ask for an increase

  21. Monopoly

    Peltdownman

    A monopoly is not necessarily owned by government but rather owning the slots to fly in and out of Heathrow is what creates revenue and a potential monopoly situation. There are many public companies that have few or no competitors such as Barbados Light and Power and BWA

    Out of interest are you aware of how many international slots BA has at Heathrow compared to Virgin and how this system is allocated?

  22. Observer

    PF: You say you don’t take risk on one hand while you say on the other hand “No more checking in and leaving without getting the weather” – which certainly implies that in the past you would depart a destination even if the weather forecast weren’t available. Is this not taking a risk? I know pilots can be pretty daft, however, initially I gave you a tad more credit than this.

    PF: The public is not in your corner. You primary focus is on self, self, self!!! Not an uncommon characteristic in even over aged spoilt brats. Are you Captain M, A, G, R, W, T, B, F, J, F, S or H? POOR little rich boys. Daddy and Mummy must be feeling the pinch and can no longer take on the boarding school fees of your kids in Trinity and Ryerson, Canada so you are going to hold the Caribbean people to ransom in the process.

    Where is the increase in income going to come from? Answer me honestly. Please don’t tell me LIAT. For LIAT is a failed business and without the benevolence of the Caribbean traveller/ taxpayer you would have lost your job many, many years ago. I find the specie call the LIAT pilot so ungrateful. You have no issue biting off the hand that feeds you all because of selfish reasons.

    Other points that you need to address: “why are these certified spoilt brats receiving much higher salaries that others who are twice as smart, work twice as hard and who have twice the responsibility” and “Another fact is the average pilot’s salary is not a true reflection of the educational sacrifices that he/ she made compared to the same lawyer and/ or doctor that you refer to. The primary criteria for getting into flying school is not based on one’s academic prowess, it has more to do with the relative wealth of your family (a fact that you can not dispute).”

    LIAT pilots have reached their position in life though unfair means. Your parents had the means of sending you to flying school while their maid’s and gardener’s children beat the hell out of you academically yet they ended out making a fraction of what you currently make. As I asked before who anointed you and the other overpaid LIAT pilots.

    If I were you I would keep your noise levels down for the louder you bray (BTW jack asses bray) the more you draw attention to your inequitable, unjustifiable and unsustainable situation.

    BTW a banker of FCIB has just confirmed my EC salary figures for LIAT cockpit crew.

    I hope that today is a day off and not a sick day for you.

  23. Observer

    PF: I would suggest you Google “Airone Ventures Limited”. Wake up and smell the coffee my brother. LIAT (and its pilots) are not God’s gift to the Caribbean travelling public and please realise that there are others waiting in the wings (literally). DIGICEL and its Irish backers are behind this project. I can tell you that these Irish backers have very deeeeeeeeeeeeep pockets. Furthermore the have been able to convince the Barbados Government (one of LIAT’s three major shareholders) to make Airone the national airline of Barbados. You play the fool and LIAT could be history in next to no time.

  24. PltFlyng

    Observer, you idiot…the weather is delivered to traffic and you get it then. You still get to review it, just not at the time the procedures call for you to do so.

    You have seen fit to attack me personally it seems. so here is a bit about me to enlighten you so that you can stop sterotyping.

    I sir, achieved top marks in seconday school i attended one of the i belive the politically correct term these days is ‘older seconday schools’. 8 CXC’s, 1 subject grade 3, the rest at 1 or 2. I then attended 6th form at the same school and was among the first year to sit the CAPE exams (before the difficulty was toned down), i have 4 cape subjects. Prefect, head boy captain of the tennis team etc etc.

    I attended THE leading aeronatuical university in the world on scholarship from the school its self which was issued to me on the basis of my academic achievements. Thats how the bulk of my schooling and flight training was paid for. Nothing has been spoonfed to me as you suggest.

    I graduated among the top of my class in the aviation management program. I also completed my flight training there. I graduated not only as a commercial pilot but as a instructor, instrument instructor, and certified ground instructor.

    Whilst at university i worked with, did research for and helped write postion papers and arguments for a certain proponent of airline union labor that was at the time involved in several on going negotiations.

    I hold commercial pilots certificates issued by 3 different jurisdictions.

    I, fly the line every day. I see what goes on. I work for the company in question i have access to figures and data that you do not. Those are my qualifications i worked hard to get where i am, and i think i am adequatly qualified to speak on this subject.

    Now may i ask, asside from having a few friend(s) who may or may not be pilots and apparently knowing a banker at first caribbean…what are your credentials sir that make you qualified to comment on this matter as anything other than a layman?

  25. PltFlyng

    LOL @ Observer
    I know all about Air One. I have known about it for what…2 years now is it?
    I was there at a meeting 2 and a half years ago when the airport manager showed where on the airport the air one operation was to set up shop.

    Assuming that it finally does get going, its not going to compete with liat. Its slated to start operating with MD-83s. Those are medium to longhaul aircraft they are not designed to operate on the short sectors that liat operates, and if they did they would be loosing money so fast they would be out of buisness in under 2 months.

    They will instead be operating in the medium hall range. Which if anything will be good for liat, more airlift to the barbados which liat can then ferry out to the other islands.

  26. Observer

    PF: I am a OECS Scholar… My oldest child is a BDS scholar. My wife is a BDS scholar. Need I say more. You obviously are an exception to the rule but YOU must admit that MOST LIAT PILOTS are overrated idiots. The next scholar in my family has been averaging >95% in ALL of his CAPE subjects and his Chemistry teacher rates him as one of the most brilliant students that he has ever taught. And he will NEVER become a LIAT pilot. I guarantee…

  27. Tell me Why

    OBSERVER. you seems more than an observer, your in depth knowledge is laced with a certain agenda, probably someone who is apposed to the plight of these pilots. Stop the belly-aching about wealth. Pilots are subjected to academic knowledge, intelligence, skill and most of all the ability to make survival decisions. Are you capable of such?

  28. Wingman Too

    Observer,

    Like most who argue against LIALPA’s stance, you are IGNORANT to the facts of the situation….IN ALL ASPECTS it seems. ’cause NO POINT you argued is true…yet you mouth off with confidence only to look more ignorant than the ppl you accuse of such. I mean you are so far off it’s not even funny anymore.

    As a wingman I’m obliged to enter in support of Plt Flyng…not because he’s a comrade in arms, but because he’s RIGHT! .. and I too detest your obviously unsuported position that all pilots (or most thereof) are spoilt, under-educated brats…Sir, I too attended one of the older secondary schools (often referred to as the University)…(as did many of my other colleagues)…and achieved 7 CXC’s, progressed to 6th form at a 2nd “secondary University”, earned A levels, had to practically BEG for financial help to enter perhaps the best flight training college in Canada, where I earned the top marks in all 8 exams and flight tests!!!!! …got a student’s loan AND a second loan just to pay for my tuition…came back to the region faced by another 10 subjects (ALL HIGH PASSES) JUST to get a job in this region….and guess what? ALL that done with mummy’s support limited to moral and psychological cause SHE HAD NO MONEY TO HELP! where’s the golden spoon there??? … so its hardly a case of “plt flyng” standing alone as an exception in that regard….you’ve simply reduced ur beaten argument about the position LIAT pilots are taking for THEIR rights, to the level of personal insults ..or perhaps u are just offended that folks who dont own the same BDS scholarships that u and ur immediate family do, make just as much money as YOU!…just saying! cause i would LIKE to think that after all that bragging, you take home way more than the average BBD$8-10k we do!…40 years or not!…PS: The British ATP Licence requires the successful pass of 14 Exams all of which must be completed in 1 year! and from all reports they’re NOT walkovers!!!! you wouldn’t dare look at a BA pilot and degrade his achievements by calling him a “certified spoilt brat” or essentially a dunce. it’s a pity how we’re degraded and insulted now, yet ppl like you practically sh*7t urselves and look to us to save the day when faced by a dire emergency..sthg that could happen ANY second up there…..our job may not be as physically challenging daily as your white collar “desk job”, but the day the proverbial “crap” (for fear of using a more app. word) hits the fan we suddenly become “under-paid Hero’s…I bring ur attention to Captain Sully and the miracle of the Hudson.. ..similarly you pay the doc $80-100 to tell u it’s a respiratory track infection (sthg that u shouldve already known with your BBD Scholarship), yet he has the potential to be a life-saver if the situation warrants…..we studied and trained hard for our important jobs, and so DID HE! what about bank managers, corporate moguls and insurance company heads who collect a fortune monthly (by fair or foul means)?… yet their position is respected and accompanying income is argued as “warranted.”

    funny that you would use the name “Observer”, and speak the way you do about pilots…sounds like the ignorant mentality of some ppl in a fellow Caricom nation. I’ve said my piece and will now exit this discussion,..it’ll frustrate those who fought for us to have industrial rights to bear reading your nonsense, as it does me. It amazes me to see how a Barbados scholar could find the intestinal fortitude to make such statements..God help us….i hope YOU didnt waste YOUR parents $$, worst yet cause your son to have similar thinking and waste YOURS!

    Forum, pls forgive my typos or gramatical errors (if any), compiled this in a rush and rage of anger (and disappointment) at the well-articulated ignorance of even a Barbados scholar!

  29. Wingman Too

    Thank u “Tell Me Why” for ur comments…so accurate about the not so observant “Observer”..rather than “try” to argue a sensible point about issues surrounding LIALPA’s position, he’s seemingly going off on a tangent of wealth comparison. Our plight is primarily to do with monies owed in the face of court-ordered compensation, fair treatment for the hard-working “unionised” staff, and the right to have a fair contract governing our employment. How would YOU Mr. Observer feel if I transferred hard-earned money from your account without your prior consultation, discussion and approval…then move it to an unknown location…and in the process cost you 50% of your interest??? are you not to question that and demand an explanation and statements for such…would you NOT want to hold me responsible for your loss of interest irrespective of the reasons for which the transfer was made?? come on man, be reasonable if that’s not normally beyond you. The pilots have suffered in silence for far too long…BA, Spirit etc striked after 2 and 3 years of unresolved issues, we shouldered the company’s B.S. for 13 years+ without official industrial action; and for voicing our frustration we are castigated. “LIAT continues its high levels of reckless spending, especially on management itself,while at the same time it appears increasingly incompetent in other areas of fiscal responsibility and employee relations.” – i aptly quote my Chairman in summarising the reasons for our lack of enthusiasm. are we unjustified? if u honestly think so then those around you must be careful…

  30. wayne

    come on guys just give the f/<king pilots a break ok the guys! work their ass out. personally, i can reassure all they are the most competent pilots in the world…. not being facetious here ok!!!!!!!

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