9/11 Mosque to be built at Ground Zero: A triumphant symbol of Islamist domination and American submission

Will Americans submit?

Recent history has shown that if you draw a picture of Mohammad or otherwise “insult” Islam, you’ll have no shortage of offended Muslims lining up for an opportunity to stab you in the heart, behead you, rape your daughter or burn your house… so you’ll have to forgive my tongue-in-cheek “confusion” that sensitive Muslims everywhere don’t realise how offensive it is to build a huge mosque on the holy ground surrounding what was the World Trade Centre.

The joke is, of course, that the people planning to build the 9/11 Mosque at Ground Zero know exactly how offensive it will be.

That’s the idea. That’s why they want to hold the grand opening on the tenth anniversary of the slaughter of 9/11.

The proponents know that the building won’t be seen by the Islamist fascists as a mere mosque: it will be a victory monument. A symbol of American submission. A vision of the progress of the worldwide Muslim Caliphate that is the Jihadist goal.

It will be something for the fascists to point to throughout the Islamic world when they’re not busy otherwise – say sharpening their knives to mutilate young women or hanging 16 year old girls for having unwed relations.

“What could be more insulting and humiliating than a monster mosque in the shadow of the World Trade Center buildings that were brought down by an Islamic jihad attack? Any decent American, Muslim or otherwise, wouldn’t dream of such an insult. It’s a stab in the eye of America.”

… Pamela Geller of Atlas Shrugs blog

Time for a little Tolerance Reciprocity by the Muslims

The proponents of the 9/11 Mosque say that allowing its construction will show the tolerance of Americans.

Okay, I’m all for tolerance – so here’s my offer…

If the Muslims want to build a mosque at Ground Zero, no problem. I’ll even donate time and money to make it happen…

…Just as soon as the first Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist and Mormon places of worship are built in Mecca.

REALLY worth listening to: 9/11 Mosque debate – Pamela Geller vs. Michael Ghouse of the Muslim American Congress on Hannity radio show

Further Reading

New York Post: Mosque madness at Ground Zero

Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch

28 Comments

Filed under Barbados, Culture & Race Issues, History, Human Rights, Religion, Slavery

28 responses to “9/11 Mosque to be built at Ground Zero: A triumphant symbol of Islamist domination and American submission

  1. twwifos

    You have as good a chance of that happening as the Thompson administration passing any kind of integrity legislation!

  2. Connie

    Pamela is so right I want to see a church built in Mecca first. That’s the deal otherwise no mosque near ground zero or for that matter anywhere else ever

  3. dismanhey

    as grandma said : 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
    Those morons who mutilate young girls, behead innocent people and love to hijack planes in the name of a religion.. they can rot in hell.
    And those who plunder , overthrow and bomb civilians into oblivion, in the name of money and religion ( Bush said that the Iraq war was “just”- a Christian concept since the Roman times -and “God’s plan”) can also rot in hell.
    For every action , there is a reaction
    But couple of points here : WTC is NY City . The home of Wall (greed) St.,42 nd st porn and Lady Gaga . Mecca is a religious city. Can’t equate these two but your point remains
    How many sects of Islam are there and who would practice there ? Just remember that Islam in USA is respected highly by many inner city black youths.
    This issue is a multi dimensional one in a racist political atmosphere where distortion is the order of the day.
    But to the site: Try 2 blocks north of the WTC site in a damaged burlington coat factory that is already being used for Muslims to worship and it is overcrowded.
    And the financier : Rauf , an Egyptian muslim who went on Arabian TV to apologise for Abu Ghraib abuses on behalf of the USA.

  4. Interesting

    Just for the record there was always a mosque in Lower Manhattan, even pre-9/11. No more than two or three blocks from the proposed location which was the former Burlington Coat Factory. The mosque that I am thinking of was on one of the blocks south of Chambers Street between Broadway and Church Streets. Generally the mosques in Manhattan are not visible to the naked eye, with the exception of the one on 96th Street.

    I recall an interview with Curtis Sliwa (of Guardian Angel fame) a few years back after he had moved into a mixed development adjacent to the 96th Street mosque that contained an islamic school and luxury apartments. He indicated that he had chosen the building as the area was crawling with federal agents– ha actually said that he never felt safer!

    I am though curious about the funds not necessarily to buy the building but to build the building– the real estate situation in Lower Manhattan pre- financial crisis was basically that the buildings that were left over were cheap and un-developable, ie., could not be demolished due to landmark status, or enlarged due to zoning regulations. I am really surprised that the site was not taken by a residential developer…

  5. BFP

    Hi dismanhey,

    How about allowing those other religious buildings anywhere in Saudi Arabia? Would that be a fair trade then?

    Tolerance Reciprocity. I like the sound of that.

    We say that the area around Ground Zero is as holy to Americans and many others as Mecca is to Muslims. The ex-Burlington coat factory was “damaged” in the attack. It is holy ground also.

    And about FGM (female genital mutilation)… although we agree the people who do it are “morons”, there are millions upon millions of women who have been so abused in the Muslim world. It’s not just a few here and there you know.

  6. David G. Brooks

    All of this is good debate and I can’t say which way I would tend to at this time, however they are important things that the Muslim/Islam world needs to address and that is it is really up to them to push their extremist brothers and sisters to stop what they are doing.

    If anyone else does so then its will only be seen as jihad fodder. Of course, they (the extremists) kill other Muslims without consideration too, so how do you counter that.

    Muslims maintain that Islam teaches tolerances, yet when we see intolerance and extremism (components rigid conservatism and outdated customs, which cannot even be supported in the Koran) right here in Barbados like when Muslim men make their women wear all the covered up clothing, then what do they expect us to think???

    They need to take stock, realise they are living in a western society and make the effort to change.

  7. BFP

    Hi David

    Found this over at Jihad Watch…

    A Triumph of Hatred Over Tolerance

    In March of 2008, there was talk of a breakthrough – the construction of a Catholic Church in Saudi Arabia.

    “Archbishop Paul-Mounged el-Hachem, one of Pope Benedict XVI’s most senior Middle East representatives, said the discussions had begun a few weeks ago.”

    The discussions were in part about the nearly 1 million Christians living in the Kingdom, many of them migrant workers from the Philippines and Catholic.

    Indeed the time seemed right for a bridge between faiths; a chance for a beautiful gesture.

    As spokesman for Pope Benedict, Father Federico Lombardi put it;

    ”If we manage to obtain authorization for the construction of the first church, it will be an outcome of historic dimensions.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7302378.stm

    However, it was not to be. Only two days later, the reports came that

    “No churches should be permitted in Saudi Arabia, unless Pope Benedict XVI recognized the prophet Mohammed”

  8. dismanhey

    BFP :
    As i did say on the point of comparison between the 2 cities :” your point remains”.. which is in agreement to the fanatical intolerance in Muslim countries of other faiths.

    I am disagreeing to NYC and specifically the WTC site as some sort of sanctimonious shrine. Almost 10 years on , there is much squabbling and very little to show in terms of rebuilding, other than 1 tower. What is the government doing about “black lung” for the first responders ? were they compensated after years of denials ? And they were called heroes and slowly dying away but guess what, you can go online and book a room at the World Centre Hotel which is literally on the doorsteps on “america’s holy ground” as you call it, and have a magnificent view of the reconstruction effort, with cranes and steel, and they are marketing that to the hilt. Now that truly is an insult. Money over everything. You don’t treat your “holy ground” this way. but then this is america.

    And so you know, women have been abused and killed in every part of the world from time immemorial because of their gender. And that is tragic for the human race not just one religion .. and on this note: “Eve ” the very first woman .. according to the early Fathers of the Church was the first sinner and all women thereafter were subsequent sinners whilst the Quran placed equal blame on Adam and Eve.

  9. BFP

    Hi dismanhey

    I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on certain things then. How boring it would be if everyone thought like everyone else.

    I do strongly disagree though with your (I think) point that there is a current equivalence between the lot of women under Islam when compared with every other religion. The West has undergone several religious and societal “reformations”. Islam has yet to undergo any.

    As far as the Bible vs Koran goes, the West has been able to modify its “understanding” of the Bible both through the New Testament and through “revised understanding” of the old testament to allow a softer strain of Christianity that no longer murders people for not being, for instance, Catholic. While you may point to tribal civil wars conducted along religious groupings (ie: Northern Ireland) you will be hard pressed to find anyone who still believes that there is a religious imperative behind the conflict goals.

    Islam desperately needs a reformation, but the folks who speak up are threatened or murdered by members of the tens of millions of hardcore Muslim fascists.

    I don’t know what the answers are, but if the west does not start demanding Tolerance Reciprocity, it’s not going to get better in the Middle East or the West.

  10. victor

    This idea just does not merit any consideration at all. How barmy do we get, being PC? Islamic fundamentalism just not deserve any reasonable platform in this day and age. Suicide killers fly planes into two buildings killing 3,oo0 people in the cause of Islam and then they request to build a mosque on the site? What? I really wish these religious fundamentalists could just shut up. I don’t care which faith they come from, the rest of us should not have to put up with this stupidity in the name of tolerance.

    As we have seen, European countries are gradually putting a foot down about the black cover-all garb of the spooky ladies cloaked like something out of a SciFi movie moving around the capitals of Europe in a pointed statement which suggests all men are potential rapists and all not-covered women are sluts. We do not have to tolerate this weirdness. Don’t get me started on slicing off young girls’ sexual organs. The whole thing is an abomination and should not be pandered to.

  11. dismanhey

    You are right.. agree to disagree but with respect. that is constructive.

    My point on women on the whole was not to draw an equivalence . Just a reminder for the pious. So no bible vs koran here .

    I agree with your point on Christianity and reformation of Islam. But we have to remember that it is the religion of the West which is the prosperous part of the world hence the stability. (it is another can of worms on how this wealth came about).

    Here are two to think about : is FGM religious or cultural that occurs in primarily Muslim countries ? Or is the veil covering the face as a result of a royalty way back when, wanted his wives to cover their faces as a protection from desert sand and has now worked its way into “religious” clothing ?

    They are going to be those who say well it does not matter as they are both objectionable. But my point point is , pick your battle with information and understanding.

    We are blessed in Barbados in a relative stable and prosperous country. We can’t even begin to comprehend the level of poverty and its effect in a instable system. Things just don’t happen. There are root causes and we must be of open mind and don’t simply buy into what is spouted about especially by those with the wealth who can control that. Could anyone here live in the Palestine or ghettos in Pakistan? it is not about who is right or wrong on the issue. it is who have to live in it. Would you trade ?

  12. BFP

    Hi Dismanhey,

    Happy to discuss things with you. (Robert here)

    I find that the culture vs religion discussion is usually invoked when trying to explain away the bad of Muslim societies. If it’s good, it is from Islam – if it’s bad, it is from “culture”.

    The truth I have found working in the MIddle East in various countries at various times is that the culture in each country is proudly held to be of Islam. Religion permeates everything in the Muslim societies and I mean everything. With the Saudis for instance, before Chevrolet or any auto manufacturer can bring in a new paint colour, it has to be vetted by the religious council established by the auto dealers for the purpose. Model names, advertising, paint and interior colours and features are all vetted to ensure that nothing conflicts with Islam. it’s a long story but I know that about the car dealerships from personal experience.

    For the Saudis, the culture is indistinguishable at its heart from Islam. There might be disagreements (however slight) about what flavour of Islam the Saudis prefer over the Persians, but Allah’s name is proudly on the flag of the nation.

    What I am saying is that at this stage in history for most majority-Muslim countries, the “culture” of the country does not exist if it is in conflict with Islam and after 1000 years or so the culture IS Islam.

    The subjugation of, and lesser value of women is laid out in Islam in the indisputable (for Muslims) Koran. A woman’s word in anything is worth less than a man’s. She must have four male witnesses to claim rape and be believed. It is dangerous for a victim to claim rape without sufficient male witnesses. A wife needs discipline and can be beaten by the husband. Women need constant male supervision and discipline because without that they will have sex indiscriminately (as further stated here on BFP by an Imam pleading his religion. I’ll try to find the reference.)

    All that translates into women cannot drive. Cannot go out of the home without a male family member present or at least written permission in rare cases. Must be dressed in bags or close to it because a woman showing skin can be a defense for rape. Women are generally held responsible for the rapist’s lack of control because they are required to be with male family members. Dangerous not to be.

    Ask any Saudi – all that is of Islam. It is indistinguishable from “culture” because Islam is the culture and the culture is Islam.

    IMHO.

  13. I have to agree with BFP and I have been saying it for a long time, it is a culture mixed with religion thing. Christianity took on much of a European aspect because it spread in that direction, mainly aided by the Roman Empire at the time.

    And there has been much reform in both culture and religious outlook in the Christian ‘world’ over the last 500 years in particular – lets face it the Europeans carried it to many more places and had to integrate it into many more cultures than Islam has had to do.

    As it is the Europeans wiped out many tribes (and thus cultures) in the new world until they realised that they had to be tolerant or they would have no indigenous people left in the New World and any other of the places their colonies were set up.

    One wonders what would have happened if it where Islam nations that had discovered the New World and extended their reach as the European did, what would have been the outcome.

    But when one looks at the Arabic ways (cultures & societies) that existed ‘before’ Islam it is not difficult to see why they are what they are and as said before their collective culture has had no major changes in centuries or longer.

    What I don’t like is when they come into our hard fought for western and more liberal societies, they want to ‘use’ our tolerance to uphold their intolerances in the name of religious freedom.

    However, like we Christian have to be regularly reminded of these simple principles taught by Jesus …

    Mark 12:28-31
    ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

    And of course the Story of the Good Samaritan which in my view is on tolerance as well as applying the above … found in Luke 10:25-37 – too long to quote here.

    Then Muslims should be pointed to …

    Koran 2:62
    “Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.”

    If you adhere to these simple principles, it should not matter what you wear nor eat. And this is a basic Truth that transiences near all religions and philosophies.

    Okay, I done preaching.

  14. BFP

    To yatinkiteasy…

    Wanta be banned? One more comment like your last and that will be it. You must have mistaken us for another blog.

    NOTHING that even comes close to being capable of being mis-perceived as a threat of violence is allowed at Barbados Free Press. (Although we have left a few comments up as examples in the past where we 1/ condemn the comment and 2/ publish the IP of the commenter so action can be taken against them – not that the RBPF ever cared or did anything about it. Just ask Adrian Loveridge.)

  15. dismanhey

    Hi Robert,

    It is a very thin line between religion and culture especially in states that don’t separate itself from religion. For many Muslim countries , like Saudia Arabia ,–( whabbism) that is correct . Your points on subjugation of women are spot on. And you can even go further with the punishment of crimes against men of different religions (penalities of the same crime varies between the religions).
    However there is Turkey with 99 % Muslim population , a secular state and very westernized.And Malaysia which is a Muslim state but with the tolerance and development that we would find comparable to our society and thinking.

    My references to the fgm and burqua as they both predates Islam. To understand and fix, is to have the knowledge first. If we feel that the burqua is incompatible with our society then we are on firm ground to reject it on the basis that it is not an intrusion on one beliefs and we would educate in the process. But to call people “spooky ladies” …it is just drawing more attention to the people who want it.

  16. BFP

    Hey Dismanhey

    Cliverton now on. FYI I agree with your position about much of the abuse to women pre-dating Islam. Unfortunately Islam and the Q’uran institutionalised the abuse and made it law. With the immutable status of the Muslim holy text and the mortal danger to anyone (especially Muslims) who suggest a change is necessary, we have a bit of a sticky wicket.

    The Islamic war against our values and freedoms is likely to continue for many more decades or centuries and our current Western policy of adapting to and accepting Islamic standards is not working except to pave the way for the destruction of everything except Islam.

    Think of it this way: No more tonic & gin!

  17. Pingback: Barbados BlogWatch is NOT Barbados Free Press « Barbados BlogWatch

  18. dismanhey

    Cliverton,
    Yes,there is war against our values and freedom.. but by whom ? by proponents of Islam or by radicalised elements who are Muslims ,one hand on the ak and the other holding the Quran .
    Sun Tzu, the chinese general said…” ..know thy enemy”.
    You say ” our current western policy “. how current is this ? And do you want to really ask what was it before? Maybe not as some of us would hang their heads in shame as those policies aided and funded the breeding ground for terrorists who would gladly blow us up now. Ever wondered why the americans are tip toeing around Iran, you can thank them for the Ayatholla, as their man, the shah ,was building toilet seats out of gold with his oil money and beating people into a pulp. see the resentment of anything American.
    I’m not in agreement to appeasing anyone who would threaten our values and freedom but i don’t feel we should simply hand out endorsements and buy into the popular western media spin . I ‘m rooted in history .. how many of our black forefathers that came from Africa as slaves were Muslims.. try about 10%. What the connection between Islam and the black civil rights movement in the usa. are these inconvient truths ? So when we say no to a mosque in WTC /Manhatten ,who exactly are we denying the right to pray ? are we creating the next set of terrorists .. just they just happen to look like us and not brown skin with a foreign accent.

  19. BFP

    Hi dismanhey

    Clive back.

    I get your point, but their are mosques aplenty in Manhattan and this isn’t a mosque. it is a multi-million dollar monument to 9/11 that will be built with Saudi money and filled with Saudi textbooks. Anywhere they like as far as I’m concerned, but not at Ground Zero or anywhere near.

    The project is very symbolic, but no less so than the so-called “Circle of Embrace” to those who died on 9/11 on Flight 93. Check out http://www.crescentofbetrayal.com/

  20. dismanhey

    Crescent of betrayal reminds me of demonic “backmasking”. An accusation levelled at Led Zepplin’s stairway to heaven as promoting Satanism, by christians groups in the 80’s.

    Clive, a 13 story building in Barbados may be impressive enough to be monumental but in Manhattan.. no.it would be a dwarf.

    Sure mosques may be aplenty there..but there in lies the double standard..we choose our church and pastor / priest with whom we are at most comfort with spiritually yet we tell Muslims to go pray anywhere they can find a mosque.

    It has taken the US just under 10 years from 9/11 to put saudia arabia on a security watch list after 15 of its citizens rammed the WTC killing 3000 + ,..me and BFP can agree that Saudia Arabia has an oppressive sytem of government which has been in place for decades..you gotta to ask who is fooling who ? why not stop the funds for the mosque it that is the trail of the funding. Just let us turn up at jfk with $10001 without proper explanation. might as well pack extra ky jelly.

    there have been services at the mosque for the 6 years, nobody objected. The town board in Mahattan held a meeting on this proposal, no one went and objected. But ask in the media, it all changed..objections galore but admitted they did not attend the meeting. Where are the convictions on this sacred site ?

    we are, as pink floyd said :” comfortably numb”. feed us information that we want to hear and take comfort with. but hey, just don’t sweat the details or we may just wake up and find out things are not what they seem .

  21. victor

    France, last Saturday: “Woman rips veil from shopper’s face in burkha row.” A 60-year old lawyer and her daughter took steps to make their point last week, whilst out shopping in Nantes. Police got involved and all three women were arrested. The mother and daughter were making loud, disparaging remarks when the burkha-wearer and her husband got angry, words were exchanged and the mother and daughter ended up ripping the veil off. I wouldn’t like to be the French police dealing with that one! The French are planning to introduce a public ban on full-face veiling by this Autumn. Let’s see how much money is generated by the Human Rights lawyers over this incident! Don’t underestimate a 60 year old French lady lawyer! It could happen in Bridgetown…..

  22. dismanhey

    bfp i’ve been in moderation for 1/2 day

  23. Jack Bowman

    Interesting thread, this. Good debate.

    I could write about 25 pages on this issue but then I’d have to charge you my day-rate, so for now I offer just my two cents on the discussion so far.

    First, we can in fact preserve a fairly clear distinction between religion and culture as regards female genital mutilation. It has nothing to do with the religion of Islam and seems to have a lot to do with Bedouin cultural practices. True, those practices have been absorbed as norms in some Muslim-majority countries, but not in all.

    Second, BFP folks have reiterated that Islam has never undergone a reformation. Also true. But perhaps, just perhaps, it’s worth considering the matter of age. As sovereign countries, just how old are Lebanon and Saudi Arabia and Syria? How old are the UAE and Kuwait? How old is Jordan? We’ve got Bajans, lots of them, who are older than the Republic of Iraq. We’ve definitely got plenty of Bajans who are a lot older than the sovereign state of Saudi Arabia.

    How countries like this came into being, and why their political systems have developed as they did during the lifetimes of many living Bajans, is something that would have to be part of the 25 pages at my standard day-rate.

    [But for now, and for two cents …]

    Granted, we don’t have any Bajans as old as Islam. Still, the age of the separate countries that make up the Muslim Middle East might (just might) be a subject worth pondering in a discussion about religious reformations.

    Third, can I mention the word “oil”? Among the millions of words that I’ve read about oil during my lifetime, perhaps the most incisive statement is something said by Sheik Ahmed Yamani when he was the Saudi Minister of Oil in the 1970s. I’m paraphrasing because I don’t have the time to look for a precise source (though Google will probably help anyone who’s interested).

    He said something like: “The Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, and the Oil Age will end long before we run out of oil.”

    We’re still in the Oil Age. And that circumstance colours every thought our policymakers have about vast swathes of the Middle East.

    You really want to hasten the arrival of what BFP calls “tolerance reciprocity”? Then buy a solar panel. Get a wind turbine. Drive a hybrid. Power the public buses with natural gas. That kind of thing is going to be much better for we post-Reformation children of the Enlightenment than torturing terrified Bangladeshis in “black sites” around the globe.

    All best wishes.

  24. Religion

    Its interesting that certain people want to change religions so they become “more soft” and reinterpret the religious texts to suit their whims and fancies. By doing this you cannot really believe in the scriptures and the prophets and God, because you are saying that the Creator’s revelation and religion needs to be altered to fit into today’s world to please the creation. And how can someone come so many hundreds of years later and claim to understand the revelation better than those who were closer to the time of revelation and lived among the prophets.

  25. Catherine

    @dismanhey…

    Ground zero where the towers once stood is Now Holy ground! People have died and innocent blood has been shed there. It is now Holy ground. What corporate greed America does, does not reflect how the majority of Americans feel about this land.
    I’m not sure your point of bringing up that many inner city black youths respect Islam. If that’s an attempt at a scare tactic, you fall very short. I live near Detroit and there are not nearly as many young youths interested in Islam as the ‘television’ shows like to portray.

    In the Bible the Lord our God places equal blame on both Adam and Eve.
    Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said,
    “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
    with pain you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”
    Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat of it,’
    “Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat of it
    all the days of your life.

  26. Muslim

    I know, all Muslims must have crosses in their house and then we will allow the Mosque to be built.

    Wait, all Muslims must worship Jesus as God vs. a prophet then we will build the Mosque.

    Seriously people…this is such BS. There are Mosques all over the Islamic world. Fine not in Mecca.

    Watch this video

  27. Ruby Stack o'Lee

    Great post. It’s awesome to see someone just state the truth, without trying to be politically correct or intentionally naive. It’s amazing how many people are pretending this is not a symbolic statement. My feelings are similar to yours: http://rubylee1776.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/a-mosque-at-ground-zero/