Pakistan On Verge Of Collapse – Taliban Heading For Islamabad and Nuclear Weapons

pakistan-taliban-nuclear-weapon

When Insurgency Becomes Civil War

If history has taught us one thing, it is that when defeat is inevitable the rush to join the victors often goes exponential before anybody realizes what is happening. We saw it in Vietnam, Cuba, Iran and when the Nazis marched into Paris in 1940. Entire countries and ways of life collapsed in a few hours as the tide turned.

If you haven’t noticed, such a thing is happening in Pakistan at this moment. The Pakistani government long ago surrendered vast areas of the country and its sovereignty to radical Islam in the form of the Taliban. Now the country and its citizens are paying the price. Taliban fighters are within 60 km of the capital and the great killing has begun in those areas newly under their control. Many police and government officials have fled the country and Sharia law is being brutally enforced.

Afghanistan used to be the problem, then it was Iraq — except that neither Afghanistan nor Iraq as countries were really the problem. So what will President Obama decide to do in relation to Pakistan?

A decision to do nothing is still a decision. The only problem is, unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, Pakistan really does have nuclear weapons. God help us and the world if Pakistan as a nation turns fundamentalist Muslim.

Daily Mail Online: Pakistan on verge of collapse as Taliban surge towards Islamabad

59 Comments

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59 responses to “Pakistan On Verge Of Collapse – Taliban Heading For Islamabad and Nuclear Weapons

  1. Rumplestilskin

    So, will the UN demand that the Pakistan Gov’t immediately incapacitate all nuclear weapons and if refused, offer to shut them down for Pakistan, with immediate action?

    Would we rather that the UN shuts these weapons down now, with or without Pakistan’s agreement, or would we rather that early one morning, we hear that Israel has, in defence, shut them down itself? That will be quite entertaining, don’t you think?

    I will explain my short reasoning.

    If, and this is not an unlikely ‘if’, the Taliban achieve control of Pakistan, I would expect that these weapons would be used for rather immediate and serious blackmail, for the Western powers to remove all troops and facilities from the Middle East.

    Likely, a few would be immediately (although probably are), aimed at Israel, awaiting ‘word’.

    These people (al Quaeda/ Taliban, same thing), have previously indicated that ANY action is acceptable, thus nuclear, to achive their aims, is not out of the question and very well may be their hearts desire.

    Hence, if the Pakistan Gov’t comes close to falling, many decision makers, including in Israel, will be concerned of the uses to which these weapons will be put.

    If the UN does nothing, Israel will, I expect a rather complete ‘removal’ of all such facilities in Pakistan.

    Take your choice, my would be for the UN to implement immediate action.

    As a matter of general approach to security of nuclear facilities, a clear cut and expedited process of taking control and incapacitating nuclear facilities in any case where a Gov’t is losing control, should be a mandate of the UN.

    This should be done with or without agreement of the relevant Gov’t.

    I warn however, that promises and assertions by Gov’t officials in times of subversive activity, should be taken with a bucket of salt, as not only fear, but collusion, may be playing a part in their assurances.

    This currently developing scenario is an example of why I am one of the bloggers who have been insisting for the past few years, that we focus on our food security and simple living, to weather such a difficult period that could come to pass.

    Peace & Live Strong

  2. Rumplestilskin

    Wonderful, the Pakistan PM has issued a statement which should certainly fuel fears that he and his Gov’t have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

    Per CNN ‘If anybody challenges the writ of the government, then we will react,” Gilani said. “Yesterday, I heard that [the Taliban] had reached Buner and close to Islamabad. Do we not have any courage? Does this parliament not have moral courage to stop them? The defense of the country is in strong hands. Our nuclear program is in safe hands’

    Gilani’s statement states in the first and last sentence that the Gov’t in control, but in the middle sentences, questions the moral courage of the Parliament to stop the Taliban?

    Absolutely mindboggling, that he could issue such a contradictory statement, basically confirming everyone’s fears.

    Hence, what I said about a ‘bucket of salt’ with any promises made.

    Peace

  3. Rumplestilskin

    Actually, reading the statement again, he notes that ‘if anyone challenges the writ of Gov’t, then his Gov’t will react.

    Oops, does he not see that the ‘writ’ of his Gov’t has already been challenged?

    Dear, oh, dear.

  4. Armed Forces

    Sometimes when I read your headlines I just have to shake my head. That’s not happening any time soon.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/24/pakistan.taliban.control.gilani/index.html

  5. Greg

    So Joe Biden was right.. Obama’s first big test is here

  6. Pollyanna

    You’ll see, Grama. Everything will be fine! Think happy thoughts!

  7. Armed Forces

    Not trying to say “all is well”, but the headline is certainly an over reaction. The problems with Pakistan have been well documented over the past few years. Leave the sensationalism out of it and report the facts.

  8. Rohan

    Armed Forces wrote: Leave the sensationalism out of it and report the facts.
    ***
    You haven’t been around here long, have you? 😉

  9. The Scout

    How many first big test will President Obama get? It seems some of you want to see USA shooting at the world. Come on get real.

  10. Rumplestilskin

    Scout,

    Certainly all of my past posts will reflect my interest in achieving a developed world by peaceful means and a lifestyle as such.

    This is also why I focus on a UN solution to this Pakistan problem.

    But something needs to be done, urgently.

    Peace

  11. Artful Dodger

    Rohan, you know I love you and your position on religion. At least over here you don’t get sermons from the pulpit, long quotations from the Bible, diatribes against blasphemers, etc, etc. It’s a trade off nuh?

  12. Unfortunately Rumps, there has never been a UN “solution” without the US proposing and enforcing it.

    Hence the devaluation of the UN’s founding principles and moral authority.

    To have an extremely capitalistic Halliburton and Blackwater logic imposed upon a 3000 year old culture and expect it to be welcomed is living in cloud cuckoo land.

    I don’t know if my reaction to predators roaming the skies above Bim, would be any different to any Pakistani patriot, the vapourising of suspected miscreants and those who happened to be in the vicinity would hardly cause me to praise the lord that America is safer from the potential Carib terrorists.
    I suspect not, probably the reverse.

    Were I in Pakistan at this moment I would demand protection from my government against all unwarranted foreign intervention, especially willy nilly attacks on “targets” which collateralise innocents.

    The puppets in Islamabad have sold out to the yankee dollar, the people know this and will change the situation.

    “Yes we can” they will say to end the ever growing long war, the war without purpose or end, the War on Terror.

    The neo-con bluff has been called, take your forces home, Sam, only then will you find the peace you mistakenly believe can be imposed.

  13. Rumplestilskin

    ST,

    The problem is, that the Taliban / Al Quaeda are in rality no different form the neo-cons that you describe, seeking to impose their will by weapon rather than by learning and peaceful means.

    To expect salvation from wolves is not salvation, but intensifying the problem.

    Do not be mislead by the Pakistan Gov’t, the speak with one tongue, act with another intention, the West have thus been mislead. How else do you think that the Taliban have come this far in Pakistan?

    Thus far the Pakistan Gov’t has miserably failed to protect its people from invaders, sadly it is the one entity that should be acting in sovereignty.

    In strictly practical terms, to think that one can sit by and not do anything, while the extremists come closer to nuclear weapons is not only naive, but suicidal.

    If intentions of the leaders are so pure, then the Pakisatan Gov’t will go ahead and disarm their nuclear weaponry now, to show good faith.

    In plain terms, staying strictly away from moralistic discussion, focusing on the strategic and practical, if the extremists come anywhere near the nuclear capability, Israel will act to eliminate an oncoming threat, be sure.

    Would you rather that a unity of international Gov’ts i.e. UN, act now to have Pakistan secure their weaponry with internaitonal assistance, or would you rather, when the Taliban come close enough in real terms (physical and persuasive) to these weapons, to wake up one morning to hear that Israel has acted to prevent their use?

    Personally, I would prefer that the Pakistan Gov’t work with international agencies to do it themselves.

    I also saw the news headlines statements that Taliban is withdrawing away from Islamabad etc. A tactic that is temporary only, while military and persuasive support can be gained, in addition to trying to qualm international fears and thus international intervention, until their aims can be brought closer to success.

    Do NOT underestimate the seriousness of this situation.

    Peace & Live Strong

  14. 199

    Congratulations, BFP, on noticing the seriousness of the situ! At least, some, politically-minded people are awake in Bim!! As Rump suggested and I’d been thinking even before reading his post, the solution’ s to destroy Pakistan’s nuclear weapons the moment it looks like a serious threat of the Taliban getting their hands on them and those of any neighbouring counties with similar ambitions. Other than that, given my experience of Pakistanis, I don’t have much sympathy for them!! However, I do have for us, and we, of course, stupid as we are, have some harbouring in our midst both in Bim and the world over!!

    How stupid can we be?!

  15. Rumple:

    The real danger is the alienation of the ordinary citizens and in particular the junior army officers brought about by these illegal attacks.

    They are destroying a friendly nation merely because their failed policy in Afghanistan leaves them with no other viable option

    Killing nine alleged Al Qaeda leaders by playing joystick wargames on screens 9000 miles away is no justification for the suffering and hatred engendered by the deaths of 800 innocent civilians.

    Just imagine how families must be living in constant fear of random attack by an unseen and undeclared aggressor, and their government stands by and allows the slaughter to continue.
    Who in similar circumstances would you turn to for protection?

    As for Israel, it has absolutely no moral or legal grounds for any such attack, being as they are in violation of many toothless UN resolutions and possessing nuclear weapons themselves.

  16. Jason

    Persons who are critical of the headline believe that the battle lines of the Taliban vs Pak government are carefully defined and visible. What they don’t realize is that Pakistan’s government is one big fifth column, and when it starts to collapse it will be sudden. The West will wake up one day to find the Taliban in charge of Pakistan.

    Then what?

  17. Nietzsche?

    The Taleban will take over Pakistan in the near future. This seems inevitable. The Taleban will thus possess nuclear weapons. What are the views of India on this? Can the UN (i.e the USA/Europe) disarm Pakistan of nuclear weapons before the takeover by the Taleban?

    Once Pakistan falls, Afghanistan will fall too along with much of Central Asia. Given that only a few countries make significant quantities of weapons and ordnance, who is behind the Taleban as supplier and financier of these weapons? Does this “hidden” hand have an agenda other than to make lots of money?

  18. Artful Dodger

    I never thought in a million years that I would support any action of the Israeli government or Mossad but honesly, it would be a good thing for them to get in there and disarm all nuclear weapons n Pakistan. Either them or the Americans.

  19. Nietzsche?

    The Israelis? Wouldn’t this ensure the start of an “Armageddon”?

  20. Don’t confuse the autonomous tribal areas, with its 2% of the population, with mainstream Pakistan.

    Any successful government must carry its people with them.

    Unfortunately the tribal areas are being forced into the “protecting” arms of the Taliban.

    The other 145+ million may be a tougher nut for the fundamentalists to crack.

  21. Nietzsche?

    An optimistic observation Straight Talk. What is the level of support/sympathy for the Taleban among the 145+ million (particularly the armed forces, let us not forget the late Zia Al Huq)? Can we be certain that the Taleban will restrict their attention to Pakistan? What do you know that the Americans do not?

  22. Taliban don’t even speak Urdu, their primitive philosophies only appeal to the unsophisticated Pashtun speakers of the mountainous border regions.

  23. kiki

    propaganda or the truth or politics?
    or the end of the world, me no know

  24. Rumboy

    What UN, it is an organization which is useless. They could not order anyone to do anything. They were useless in Rawanda and are useless in Darfur.

  25. 199

    Straight Talk, u is a secret Taliban, ent u!!

    Lord!!

    Bring back hardman, General Musharaf, or whaever he name is!! He knows how to deal with the Taliban!

  26. Rumplestilskin

    That is just the point. In the previous US administration, US took the reins, including going against other world leaders in entering Iraq.

    This administration must support a new UN approach, the other leaders must also stand up and be counted in making significant decisions and committing to action.

    We can harp on about the UN not working, but if the leaders are unwilling to committ, then no one can criticise subsequent action by any other Gov’t acting in its defense.

    USA cannot afford another military action on its own, financially.

    If and when Israel acts in its defense, will the same world leaders who will not commit as part of the UN, berate Israel, will the many who criticise the UN for being useless also chastise Israel, or will it be admitted that Israel acted in defense, subsequent to inaction on the part of others?

    All fine to refute solutions, in fact the only solution that will be palatable to most is a UN action.

    If world leaders do not support this action as members of the UN, then they lose any right to criticise any country that acts in its own defense.

    Defense may also be pre-emptive, you do understand?

    If all nations refuse to commit, refuse to support actions that are clearly necessary, then we could as well call for ‘every nation for itself and its friends’ commencing immediately.

    If that is what is, then by all means.

    If that is what it is, then start stockpiling food and supplies now, as then it will only be a matter of time, before such become necessary.

    This is why Obama became President, we needed someone who the world can work with, rather than those who refuse to work with others, communication and negotiation, rather than antagonism, movement towards uniting nations, rather than separation and divisiveness.

    I am sure that he will try his utmost to rekindle the committment to a United Nations, by international leaders.

    If they refuse to participate, then so be it.

    Pakistan’s own PM’s statement showed incompetence and malais, if that is the standard that the world demands from leaders, then no wonder the UN is failing as an institution of guidance, leadership and where necessary, corrective action.

    Peace & Live Strong

  27. 199

    Does that suggest they’ll be more lenient in their barbaric ways?? I don’t think so!! And please answer my question to you above; are u a secret Taliban? You seem to support them!!

  28. Pat

    Straight Talk:

    Thanks, you are not afraid to talk straight! I agree 100%. Rump is not being objective.

  29. Rumplestilskin

    ST/ Pat,

    No. I am being very objective. As clinical as I can be.

    I am fully aware that families feeling aliented may indeed turn to the Taliban.

    This rests fully on the shoulders of the incompetent Pakistan Gov’t.

    What is reality, is that whatever got us to this position, the position is now very shaky and a conclusion will come to pass, whether we like it or not. In referring to Israel’s action, note that I stated clearly ‘staying strictly away from moralistic discussion, focusing on the strategic and practical’, which gives the background as to why action will be taken regardless.

    Removing all ‘extraneous material’, we have a scenario, that the Taliban/ Al Quaeda have a possibility of achieving full control of Pakistan nuclear facilities, that they have before proven their willingness to commit rash acts (whether or not one moralises on the justification for these), we have at least one country that sees its own defense as paramount i.e. Israel, India also, as well as international interests, we have a Pakistan Gov’t that is appearing every day to be more incompetent and this combination of factors is a recipe for big trouble.

    So, what do we do, or anyone? Sit idly by?

    I do not think that is an option.

    I am all for peaceful means for settlement of disputes, which I see as paramount first steps usually, military action being a last resort.

    However in my view a ‘little’ action now can save significant suffering and deaths in the future, when the situation escalates due to inaction now.

    Lesser of two evils, to use a common phrase.

    Peace & Live Strong

  30. Tek-a-view

    I don’t know where you get the idea that the Taliban’s primitive philosophies only appeal to the unsophisticated Pashtun people. I believe that the Taliban speaks whatever their targeted audience wants to hear.

    I also wonder the western world constantly refers to the “fundamentalist Islamists”. There is no such thing as a non-fundamentalist Islamist. They all read from the same book, believe the same thing, that they must take the world by the word or by the sword. That is their bottom line, it is in the Koran. The sooner the west recognises the threat that we are facing the sooner some positive action may be started.

    Like enforcing our dress codes, cultural practices etc. That is what happens in Islamist countries but they are using our democratic practices to subvert our way of life while enjoying the sweets of the western social benefits. I saw several people, i could not say if they were female or male, at GAIA recently, entire bodies covered from head to toe walking freely in the airport. If I put on a face mask security would be on me like atick to make me take it off or leave! If one of us visits n Islamist counrty and even hints at anything openly Christian like reading a Bible in public or quoting aloud from it, hang on jail and trouble on the way!

    Time is short!

    The Israelis will not be worried about popular opinion if they feel that the Taliban are close to getting nuclear weapons and in this case I will support them in taking out that threat by whatever means they consider necessary. In this case I believe that their survival is closely linked to the survival of our society! We can’t wait for the UN to act however well meaning that body is. They are constrained by too many countries with small agenda like Venezuela which will always e anti- anything supportive of the US. The UN cannot act quickly or effectively because they have to “please” too many representatives. A committee of that size is guaranteed not to be able to make an effective or quick decision.

    Nuff prayers needed!

  31. Here are some futuristic prophecies/predictions – call them what you like, but here goes:-

    (1) There will be a WORLD WAR 3 in our lifetime and I am NOT talking about skirmishes in countries where we are seeing escalating violence – whether it be TAMIL Tigers against government forces or the current debacle in the Sudan; piracy in the waters off Somalia or unrest in Caucuses along with the current localized militarization in the Persian Basin …

    (2) Islamic and Christian scholars all agree that before the Mahdi or Messiah appears – specific prophecies must be fulfilled…No wonder Mahmoud Ahmadinejad continues to RANT against the Zionists…

    (3) Radical Islamofascists will detonate a nuclear device on North American soil according to the prophecies and North America (the last world empire) will be left in ruins and so will be fulfilled the fall of all earthly civilizations based on the prophecies of Daniel 2:44 – 45…

    (4) The Vatican and Papal powers after making the whole world to become obeisant to FALSE worship will be burned and destroyed by a league of 10 nations after the fulfillment of the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11:14 and the 3rd WOE!!!

    (5) This is probably the most fearsome of all the prophecies in all of Scripture – “JESUS CHRIST – “The Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah” is coming back in our lifetime – are we ready for a Heavenly invasion of extraterrestrial, apocalyptic and cataclysmic proportions?

    Everything else is just fine print…

  32. kiki

    isn’t god supposed to decide when the world will end

  33. 199

    Straight Talk, u know very much bout the Taliban!! U sure u in one uh dum?!!

    Sorry, BF, could n’t help dah wun!! 🙂

  34. kiki

    No pakistani ever forced black people into slavery
    Some may even be on the blacks side

  35. BFP

    hmmmm…. that is quite a statement considering that Pakistan currently has a very active slave trade. Is your point really that Pakistan slave traders will not enslave blacks because of their race?

  36. kiki

    to: BFP [BELOW]
    the point is it is wrong to demonise pakistani’s
    all over the world as muslim terrorists
    (there are also african muslims as well)

  37. 199

    BFP, you ‘re so right in your reply to ‘kiki’, yesterday. They’re such evil *wine and if anybody thinks that in a Muslim world we would be spared, because we’re dark-skinned too, then it just shows how stupid they are. Should n’t mind learning more about the Pakistani slave trade to which you referred, though!! I suspect that ignoramus, ‘kiki’ also has n’t heard about how christians are treated by Muslims, in Africa!! What an idiot!!

  38. BFP

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1215/p08s01-wosc.html

    Twelve years after the government made bonded labour illegal, it is estimated that there are still five million labourers in Pakistan bonded to their employees by debt. There is a central fund to rehabilitate workers like Laxmi but, so far, not one rupee has been spent.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/1357_slavery_today/page4.shtml

  39. kiki

    Just Stating historical facts about slavery:
    Barbados was used by colonialists for selling and shipping slaves to the west
    European traders also gained control of asia
    There may also be african slave traders today too

    (I won’t bother calling 199 a stupid ignorant fool I will praise him for his wisdom about religions)

  40. kiki

    * muslims
    * extremists
    * terrorists

    should be treated as separate categories

    muslims are not necessarily extremists

    muslims are not necessarily terrorists

  41. akabozik

    Not all Muslims are terrorists. Most terrorists are Muslim.

  42. kiki

    and in a court of law
    being muslim is not a crime
    being a terrorist is a crime
    (if proven beyond reasonable doubt)

  43. 122

    Maybe then Israel would stop being the nazis of the middle east. Their ethnic cleansing is quite clear for anyone who cares to follow up on what happens in Palestine.

  44. BFP

    By all means, 122 (and we know who you are)… you want to get rid of Israel and the Jews. That is your solution, isn’t it? Your vision of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy to rule everyone and everything dominates your thoughts every day.

    We can see the motto over your computer “Hitler had the right idea”.

    That pretty well describes your worldview, doesn’t it?

  45. Artful Dodger

    Kiki: God, whichever one you are speaking about, has nothing to do with it. Man, and only man, will be the cause of the end of the world as we know it.

  46. kiki

    What are the signs of the end times?
    Apparently Christ will return on Gods timetable

    Mark 13:30-33: Jesus is recorded as saying: “….This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished….But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

    (or so the story goes)

  47. 199

    Thank you, BFP. I see to what you were referring, now!

  48. 199

    kiki, what u ‘omitted’ to say is that “most terrorists are muslim”!! You’re an idiot and need to open your eyes and learn to face reality!!

  49. kiki

    Mr Small-minded (199)
    you sound like someone who has never seen or spoke to an ordinary muslim .

  50. kiki

    How you mean 03/05/09 24 hours to get published
    you saying asian man opinions don’t matter
    only black people get published
    free press is not true (backwards mentality)

  51. kiki

    You need to develop a tolerance of all people in a multi-culti land

  52. Rumplestilskin

    According to Cnn, the SWAT valley is now the scene of a major battle between militants (Taliban) and the Pakistan military, as well as a major voluntary civilian evacuation, of at least 500,000 expected.

    When a conflict involves such a displacement of people i.e. refugees, as well as strong and persistent conflict, it may be fairly likely that the situation is very serious from a strategic viewpoint, thus I stand with my original assessment, that the Pakistan Gov’t must immediately and voluntarily disarm all nuclear weapons, under the supervision of the UN.

    One must never wait until that final minute, but act well in advance of an impending threat.

    Supposing the situation spirals further into civil war, who then will guarantee the safety of these weapons?

    There is no alternative at this point.

    Peace & Live Strong

  53. Illuminator

    What about disarming the US , the only country to use Atomic bombs against another and who continue to recklessly use so called depleted Uranium weapons in Iraq and God knows where else . What about Israel , who possess one of the largest yet unsanctioned nuclear arsenals around.

    Also there is big difference between Jews and the Zionist (ex) terrorists who control Israel. According to my understanding Zion is to come about through the divine intervention of God and not the bloody intervention of war , suffering , terror , and forced displacement of another people . Especially those who the original stock of ‘Jews’ would have come from (Semites).

  54. Jason

    Illuminator, pray tell… what is a “sanctioned” nuclear weapon and which countries have “sanctioned” nuclear weapons?

    You sound like you make stuff up as you go along.

  55. Illuminator

    Israel and weapons of mass destruction
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    Weapons of
    mass destruction

    By type
    Biological
    Chemical
    Nuclear
    Radiological
    By country
    Albania
    Algeria
    Argentina
    Australia
    Brazil
    Bulgaria
    Canada
    PR China
    France
    Germany
    India
    Iran
    Iraq
    Israel Japan
    Netherlands
    North Korea
    Pakistan
    Poland
    Romania
    Russia
    Saudi Arabia
    South Africa
    Sweden
    Syria
    Taiwan (ROC)
    United Kingdom
    United States

    List of treaties
    v • d • e
    Israel is widely believed to be one of four nuclear-armed countries not recognized as a Nuclear Weapons State by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).[1] The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment has recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared chemical warfare capabilities, and an offensive biological warfare program.[2] Officially Israel neither confirms nor denies possessing nuclear,

    Am Jason…..this is what I’am talking about bud. The copy and paste is a bit rough but you can google it yourself . Much of this arsenal is believed to have been aided by the US. Do u see the hypocracy here , or am i just making it up.

  56. Illuminator

    Try other information sources besides the ‘official’ ones and CNN , you would be surpised with what you unearth.

  57. akabozik

    I still don’t see any body “sanctioning” nuclear weapons Illuminator. You DO make it up as you go along.

  58. the sharia law has implemented for 70 years ago until Pakistani troops invaded Swat in 1970’s. So the fact is the Pakistani enforced Pakistani laws to Swat people.

  59. Illuminator

    Ok , let me put it this way . Countries having nuclear weapons have for the most part signed a nuclear weapons non-prolifaration treaty where they are to abstain from further production of nuclear weapons .Israel has not signed this treaty as they have not confirmed they have nuclear capabilities. Iran for example have signed onto this treaty. Yet Iran is continually persecuted about their nuclear abilities and Israel is rarely bothered.