An Engineer Writes About Those Barbados Flyovers

barbados-flyover-scandal.jpg

We received this letter without an indication as to whether the author wishes his name published, so out of caution we have withheld the name unless we hear otherwise…

Flyovers hit the headlines again.

A friend drew my attention to a local blog today. Assuming that it is correct, it did serve to illuminate a problem with the flyovers that had previously bothered me. What had troubled me was that the Government’s civil engineers had apparently proposed the flyovers as a solution to the congestion problem on the ABC Highway in preference to traffic lights. Now it appears that the idea was due to Mr. Ralph Williams, not unsurprisingly if true, since the flyovers are to be made of steel and Mr. Williams owns the only sizeable steel fabricating firm in Barbados That Mr. Williams apparently sold his bill of goods to the Prime Minister, the Minister of Public Works and Transport and, apparently, the Ministry’s engineers is an extraordinary accomplishment.

It is an article of faith in highway engineering that one keeps the gradients on major highways as easy and as level as possible, with as few gradients as the topography allows. The interpolation of the steel switchbacks that are about to disfigure the landscape of Barbados is quite simply idiotic. However, we can always offer a sort of national Disneyworld as an attraction for The Honourable Noel Lynch to advertise.

Of course, that recent news that the work will eventually cost $360 million Barbados dollars is another reason to call for the heads of the PM and the Minister. The PM is an economist – can’t he look after the money? Not to mention that going up and down the flyovers will increase fuel consumption.

Traffic lights work very well when they are properly used and maintained. Mr. Williams, who is an electrical engineer as far as I know, would know this. After all, he has traveled the world and seen them working, and I am sure if they were part of his organisation he would never have allowed them to be the subject of opprobrium and contempt.

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127 Comments

Filed under Barbados, Political Corruption, Politics, Politics & Corruption

127 responses to “An Engineer Writes About Those Barbados Flyovers

  1. more

    I seem to remember reading that this flyover project was to be financed differently.
    Anyone remember how we were told the financing was arranged?

    BFP you are on the ball, as usual.

    Mr. Williams (either one), how was the financing arranged again?

  2. Kevin

    Question. Where in the world have you ever seen traffic lights on a major highway/freeway?

  3. ecky becky

    ralph bizzy Williams told Barbadians that flyovers are to be installed long before any gob official Owen included. That says it all.

  4. reality check

    kevin

    my question too

    traffic lights stop or slow down traffic

    on and off ramps keep a free flowing movement

    I would love to see the alternative presented to the government with estimates of budgets.

    Oh I forgot, the public is not entitled to see such information. They are just required to pay and pay.

    You can safely assume the financing and contractor tendering protocol is a scam and not transparent.

  5. ask RR

    Deja vu Trueblue.

    http://labourparty.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/operation-freeflow/

    Operation Freeflow
    July 23rd, 2006 • 14 Comments

    • Trueblue // Jul 25th 2006 at 12:03 pm
    Didn’t someone say that the next election would be the Flyover Election? Where do you think the BLP’s election finance will come from if not a flyover kickback?
    Remember Barrack and the building in Warrens in 1999?
    You wn’t get any answers to these questions, you won’t find Sylvan and the PM is out and about pawning our country’s future to the highest bidder.

  6. Wishing in Vain

    Folks what we have here is a level of insider trading of sorts we have a corrupt leader a corrupt builder, a corrupt provider, and a corrupt bunch of hangers ons raping the islands treasury.

  7. …..wondering about “major” highways in Barbados. Traffic lights work fine to control traffic in populated areas. (when they are working)
    Roundabouts on Barbados’s highways work just fine and dandy.
    I suggest better driving instructions and education.
    I’m praying never to see flyovers in Barbados. Amen.

  8. more

    WIV,

    A lot of us seem to be missing the main point – CORRUPTION/TIEFING.

  9. more

    Rommell Marshall spoke out against the flyovers.

  10. John

    …Rommell is in court…..

  11. selfemployed

    BFP got me that I can’t even get any work done this morning. Things sure are hot here on BFP today.

  12. ask RR

    What happened with Gline Clarke?

    http://www.nationnews.com/story/324763178186337.php

    Clarke was unavailable for comment yesterday, and the WEEKEND NATION was informed he was convalescing in the United States.

  13. Wishing in Vain

    I would personally like to thank the BFP and BU for giving this story the front page position that it deserved and my thanks to OOPS!! for bringing this site up todate and exposing these corrupt persons involved in this scam, ie the PM, Nicholls, Bannister, the minister of road works, the DPM and the AG they should all be held liable for this bastard being brought onto the scene and to conspire with him to rob us Barbadians.

  14. roundabouts actually arent fine and dandy. they are a great alternative to electronic traffic signals when you have a fairly even flow of traffic going into an intersection. once the flow becomes for lack of a better word unbalanced ie significantly more flow in one direction than another into the intersection then roundabouts contribute significant delays. so for those types of intersections electronic traffic signals are the way to go.

    problem though is that we’re talking about a highway as opposed to an arterial street so you really dont want to have alot of start and stop on a highway. thats probably the reason they ruled out traffic lights.

    not a real fan of the flyover alternative though but i’d like to see the design cause if its being done the way i see it in my head i dont think its being used the way most flyovers are used elsewhere.

  15. Bussa Goddard

    Kevin

    The question is why would our little 2 x 4 island need a “freeway”. Surely the road widening, some effectively coordinated traffic lights, proper subsidy of a dedicated school bus system and the introduction of bicycle lanes as opposed to these “laybys” would have done the trick at a substantially lower financial and environment cost. And why the hell do we need these huge concrete “bollards” (i forget the correct term) in the centre of the road. I drive in Florida regularly and the only time I see these things is on the eight lane highways. Apart from the cost being horrendous, they unnecessarily divide and cut-off communities, not to mention businesses on the highway. If COW is the one behind these concrete structures, it would be no wonder that he is chewing his cud. You pay all the way to drive on his road and then the only logical place for you to dismount is at his soon to be built shopping complex of Highway 2A.

  16. Waterboy

    more
    September 14th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
    I seem to remember reading that this flyover project was to be financed differently.
    Anyone remember how we were told the financing was arranged?

    BFP you are on the ball, as usual.

    Mr. Williams (either one), how was the financing arranged again?
    —————————————————————
    The Chief Technical Officer at Ministry of Public Works was on CBC before the start of the project and he said it was a BOLT (Build, Lease, Operate, Transfer). I think the Prison is the same.

    Nowhere have I seen an explanation of exactly what BOLT will mean for the taxpayers and citizens. How much is the annual lease? Over how many years. I think everyone will be shocked, and that was before the new higher cost.

    Is BND providing the major financing for both of these projects? Was the Managing Director of this bank boasting in the media recently about his bank having the largest loan portfolio in Barbados?

    From The Advocate
    http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/IndexNewBizMonleft.cfm?Type=BM

    THE Barbados National Bank (BNB) is now the largest lender within the local banking sector. This is according to CEO and Managing Director, Robert Le Hunte, of the former Barbados state-owned bank at a news conference which was called to review the BNBs performance for the nine months ended June 2007.

    If BNB is providing the major finance for both Flyovers and Prison is it surprising that they are the largest lender in the local banking sector.

  17. Hants

    Has anyone noticed that VOB moderators are asking some very serious questions?

    David Ellis has raised the bar again.

    Listen to Brasstacks on VOB tonight.

  18. more

    Third try.

    Thanks Waterboy, I think I got it now.

    http://www.bnbbarbados.com/section.cfm?nm=About%20BNB&Type=Management&ID=10
    BNB
    MANAGEMENT
    Directors
    Mr. Ralph S. Dec. Williams
    Chairman
    Williams Industries Inc.
    Warrens
    St. Michael
    Mr. Ronald F deC. Harford F.C.I.B
    Chairman / Managing Director
    Republic Bank Ltd.
    Mr. Peter Symmonds LLB LLM
    Attorney-at-Law
    Yearwood Boyce
    James Street
    Mr. Robert Le Hunte MBA C.A, BA
    (Econ) Dip. (Mgmt)
    Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
    Barbados National Bank Inc.
    Mr. Ian Carrington
    FCGA
    Director
    National Insurance Department
    Mr. David Dulal-Whiteway Esq. MBA, CGA
    Deputy Managing Director
    Republic Bank Ltd
    Mr. Joseph Goddard MA, FCA, JP
    Managing Director
    Goddard Enterprises Ltd.Mr. William Layne
    Mr. G. Anthony King
    Company Director
    Neal & Massy ( Barbados ) Ltd
    Mr. William Layne
    BA, CMA, ACIS
    Permanent Secretary
    Ministry of Finance
    Mr. Anthony Hoyos
    FCCA, CPA
    Partner
    BACH Partnership
    Tax Consultants
    Mr. Kenneth Hewitt
    CBE, B. Comm, CA
    Consultant

  19. Bussa Goddard

    Self- employed

    I too am self-employed and not been getting any work done this week, but this is largely because I have become depressed with the realisation that our country has sunk into a funk of corruption so deep that we are now rivalling or outstripping some Caribbean neighbours that we once looked down on. The thing is that I believe that our people as a whole are essentially decent souls, however with the corruption prevelant at the top, it is only a matter of time before the leachate seeps straight through our society. It is happening already, just by virtue (oxymoron surely) of our silent tolerance of the garbage heaped on us by the political and business leaders. The opposition party is clearly already being infected but so long as they have not had the chance to soil their hands yet there is still hope. We must find creative ways, in addition to the blogging and pressure from BFP and BU to force Mr. Thompson and his gang to accept he need for integrity legislation and to reverse this trend that will surely destroy our country if not arrested.

    Your thoughts?

  20. Wishing in Vain

    Yes he just hit it for six at the closing stages when he asked the caller what were his feelings about the news story today in the Nation about 3 S fraud but the caller rambled and said that the right minister will respond when the time is right.
    I think what he means is that the party is waiting for Owing EASF see thru to return for his travels to here there and yonder for him to make a statement as no one else within the party is capable or maybe allowed to speak without getting shot down.
    This is what we have a ruling party that something as major as this story is and no one from within the party is even willing or prepared to address the issue.

  21. Kevin

    Mr Goddard,

    yes we do need a major highway in Barbados. You drive often in Florida but have you ever driven on the ABC highway? The volume on that road during peak driving time is all the evidence needed to support that assertion.

    As for the bollards (or barriers) perhaps you should ask the families of all those who have died because a car jumped the curb on what was previously the only two lane part of the highway. They might see the relevance as I do.

  22. more

    My posts are disappearing into cyberspace.

    *********************

    BFP Comments

    Hi more…

    We recovered them. We’re working as fast as we can here. Something big breaking and our hands our full. The cyber attacks are continuing and we are dealing with them.

    Patience, please…

    Thanks

    Cliverton

  23. Wishing in Vain

    We need to have Bizzy Williams to come to the press and state their role in this project alongside that of the scamp Danos, Nicholls, Bannister and Owing, we need to know their role in the overall project.

  24. more

    Cuh dear WIV,

    Bizzy is on the board of the BNB who is said to be financing the project for which he is said to be supplying the steel.

    So what do you think you will get out of Danos, Nicholls, Bannister and Owing? They are said to be supplying the STEAL.

  25. Wishing in Vain

    So yes they got steal in there as I said before.
    The corruption has gone wild in this island.

  26. BFP

    MESSAGE FOR GEORGE

    PLEASE CHECK “MORE” and see what’s up with his being dumpted to moderation all the time.

    I don’t have the list handly.

    thx

  27. Bussa Goddard

    Kevin

    For the record I drive on the ABC H/way every day, on average about 4 times a day so I am familiar with the congestion there, hence my support for alternative traffic solutions. Last night I had the challenge of navigating around a car stalled on the inside lane next to one of those concrete structures. I repeat that I have driven safely (as a tourist ) on much wider streets in Miami without the “protection” of these vast concrete dividers . Of course these are streets and not freeways and are distingiushed from freeways not so much by the width of the road, but the density of residential and business activity, making adequate provision for side exits and left (right in our case) turns without significantly impeding traffic flow. Street lights also provide the indirect benefit of slowing down the boy racers who tend to cause a lot of these head on collisions. The flyovers, as designed, will of course turn our highway into the “streets of San Francisco” providing our boy racers with the great thrill of going up and down, up and down inclines at exiting speeds. Kevin, we will save lives with sensible driving, appropriate speed limits and effective enforcement of our traffic laws – not by destroying our beautiful tiny island with vast concrete structures.

  28. notesfromthemargin

    “Traffic lights work very well”??????
    he can’t be serious. The biggest back ups on the pre exisiting highway were due to traffic lights.

  29. more

    Thanks BFP. Clive, no need to bother as I sent the info directly to BFP. Everything working now.

    Keep your focus on the priorities.

    L0oking forward to what is breaking.

  30. Bajan Bullets

    Although I agree with many of the author’s comments, I can not agree with the author’s comments regarding traffic lights. Traffic lights have proven to be a recipe for disaster when used in Bajan road systems. In fact, I can not think of a single set of traffic lights in barbados which could not be removed and replaced with a more effective solution (except perhaps for the pedestrian crossings in Bridgetown which are fairly effective).

    Traffic lights on the ABC highway are undoubtedly a poorly thought through suggestion. The reality is that roundabouts create a virtual exit and entry system on their own. The only thing that needs to be adjusted is the width of the highway and the proper addition of lanes and traffic regulations to allow cars to flow smoothly on and off of the highway from the various secondary roads.

    In addition, you should notice that the only part of the highway that currently has traffic lights (i.e. the Pine and Wildey area) is perhaps the most congested of all. One might argue that these traffic lights actually are the cause of most of the traffic from the Hothersal Turning roundabout to the Garfield Sobers roundabout.

    Finally, has anyone noticed that the animations all show only single-lane flyovers? This defeats the entire purpose of widening the highway since cars will all have to merge into the right lane in order to “flyover”. There will be congestion and accidents taking place from drivers who are forced to merge from the left lane into the right in order to it on to the flyover at 80+km/h. Even if the flyovers were the only solution, at least they could have been made to be 2 lanes in either direction so that traffic could in fact “flow freely”.

  31. Kevin

    I also am prone to delusions – a hope for peace in the middle east and an elimination of racial animosity – but I regret to say that these and your hope for sensible driving by Bajans are little more than pipe dreams.

    The flyovers won’t look great I agree, but they will serve a purpose, that being a reducion of volume at the roundabouts. Whether there are roundabouts or traffic lights on the highway either will serve as impediments to the free flow of traffic. By elevating the traffic flows along the highway the flyovers will allow for easier crossing of and merging onto the highway.

    Most people do not understand this concept but when you see the designs (as I have, and no I do not work for 3S, BNB, the Gov’t or any of the sub contractors) and study how the traffic flows will go (as I also have) the logic of the system is quite clear.

    The problem is that none of this has been communicated by any of the parties involved. The video that is on Barbados Underground is interesting to watch but needs narration. Pity the project doesn’t have a better PR firm managing the message.

    As far as destroying our island with concrete structures, perhaps we should start by making an effort on not littering, not dumping illegally, painting houses and being responsible for unkempt lands. A concrete structure down the middle of the road and a couple steel structures are hardly worth worrying about when we have those broader environmental issues.

  32. Kevin

    oh and perhaps Greenland or do you not listen to your cousin?

  33. Anonymous X

    Has anybody done a cost benefit analysis of the flyovers?

    We know how 3S, BIZZY AND COW will benefit ..what what about us jane public?

  34. more

    Kevin,

    I understand what you are saying but shouldn’t the cost to taxpayers of any project be considered also?
    Shouldn’t there be accounting for the money to be spent?

  35. Kevin

    Hey let me be clear – I am not defending the cost, the bidding process or selection of contractor. My defense is limited to the technical aspects of the solution to Barbados’ traffic problems.

    And yes I get the irony of the current traffic problems caused by the solution to our previous traffic problems. I don’t defend the time it has taken either. Only the technical aspects that are critised in the letter from the “Engineer”.

  36. Anonymous

    Why is Gline unavailable for comment and why did the nation wait nearly two weeks to break a story that will affect bajans and their children in the form of payments in years to come??also why is Asscoll,tiefing Gline and the biggest con of them all Hallam Nicholls missing from the photo of danos,only in Barbados nuh.???

  37. Kevin

    Bajan Bullets,

    Think of it this way when you watch the video. The middle lanes are express lanes for those travelling an extended distance along the hgihway. The outside lanes are local traffic lanes for those entering and exiting the highway.

    When you enter the highway you will merge into the middle lane – this will be learning process for most drivers because there is not much call for this skill currently – but we will adapt because we are all relatively smart people and it is not a terribly difficult skill to master. After all we adapted to jam busting of whcih everyone was intially critical.

    When it comes time to exit the highway you will merge into the outside lane and approach the next roundabout. This roundabout should be free from congestion because most of the traffic has been elevated over it allowing you to freely move along on your journey.

    This is the type of narration that should be accompanying the 3S video that’s on Barbados Underground. And the project planners should be explaining this to Bajans on television and with big newspaper ads so that people will understand how it works.

  38. Wishing in Vain

    The real issue here is accountability to the masses and this is certainly not what is taking place here when the cost ( as was revealed by a contractor not even a gov’t minister ) of a project can triple overnight and still the ones who are going to be paying the bill are in the dark about exactly what they are being called on to pay for.
    Then tofind out that the one allocated this work is a fraud who conspired to rob the Jamaician people in work that he undertook there and we contract him do so the same thing here?

  39. Bajan Bullets

    Kevin,

    After spending a number of years living (and driving) in the U.S. I am quite familiar with the concept of merging and how integral it is to a properly functioning road system. However, what the single lane flyovers will do is to create an extended single-lane highway and therefore the entire widening process is futile.

    If you think of a pipe with water running through it (the highway with cars on it), the best way to get the water through quicker is to expand the diameter of the pipe (widen the highway). The flyovers have created a ‘single-lane highway’ which has virtual exits (and quite inneficient ones at that) in the form of a left lane but has not actually widened the road for the flow of traffic continuing down the highway.

  40. Peltdown Man

    It seems to me that most of the congestion on the existing highway (prior to roadworks) was down to traffic lights at the dairy and Cable & Wireless, a backup from Hothersal Turning, and the stupid set-up for traffic into and out of the Warrens complex, which backs-up traffic on to the roundabout. With two lanes on each side flowing into the roundabouts, I see less congestion, and this should at least be tried before we undertake the expense of the flyovers. As for the lights, we have all seen how easily the traffic flows when they don’t exist, or are switched-off. I really don’t see the highway as the problem with traffic. How are we going to fix the Wildey Main Road, or Highway 7, or the congestion on Pine Hill Road because of the Erdiston turn-off? There are many more of these jams which build frustration, and they will still be there, or even worse, when the $300-odd millions have been spent on the highway.

  41. bashy

    Well done Kevin on explaining how the flyover will work. There have been ample information videos etc put into the public eye. Who ever keeps banging on about traffic lights must seriously be driving with his eyes shut. Equally roundabouts cease to work where there is too much volume of traffic.As anyone in Barbados knows when the traffic lights break down traffic flows much better.
    The flyover is a fantastic idea for a congested island like this with little room for expansion. they are used extensively in Singapore – the garden city- another small congested island and dont look unsightly at all. they can look very beautiful with the use of hanging plants etc, The design for the flyovers here in Barbados is innovative and asthetically pleasing.
    It is up to the government to make sure that all information is passed to the public.They seemed happy to leave it all to 3S who are getting all the flack for what is a very sensible solution to the Barbados traffic problem.

  42. bashy

    The flyovers have created a ’single-lane highway’ which has virtual exits (and quite inneficient ones at that) in the form of a left lane but has not actually widened the road for the flow of traffic continuing down the highway.

    They dont need to be double width . Traffic will be passing under the flyovers and exiting at the round abouts. There is ample room as the highway will be widened to four lanes.

  43. Kevin

    To use the water analogy, the pre-works highway did not have a big problem with the water flowwing along the highway – the problem was at the roundabouts which served as a pinch-point and mixing valve. Traffic (water) flowing along the highway got into competition for capacity at the roundabout (mixing valve) with traffic (water) crossing, joining and leaving the highway. These flows have now been separated and will no longer compete for capcity at the mxiing valve.

    It is difficult to explain this in words, which is why I think the project planners need to amp up their PR on the project and start explaining to road users how it will all work.

  44. Straight talk

    Will cane tractors and backhoes be allowed on the single, middle lane?

    If so, the whole thing is a waste of time.

  45. bashy

    I trust the letter from ‘an engineer’ was not the one whose solution to the problem was to widen the highway to 6 lanes and install more traffic lights . ‘As has been done in Toronto’.(A city bigger than the entire Island of Barbados)

  46. Kevin

    Bashy, I disagree with your assertion that there have been ample information videos etc put into the public eye. I think all involved have done a terrible job of doing just this.

    There is only one video which misses some sections – nothing has appeared in the newspaper that I am aware of. This needs to be done so that peple can begin to understand how it is to their benefit.

  47. Kevin

    I do however agree with your assessment of that laughable solution for 6 lanes. I saw the designs, big and bold on a plan and it was perhaps the most ridiculous idea I’ve seen on traffic engineering.

  48. Anonymous

    “Traffic lights work very well when they are properly used and maintained.”

    CRAP.
    and the idiots at the Ministry know NOTHING about how to programme them intelligently.

    TRAFFIC LIGHTS CREATE TRAFFIC.
    Particularly traffic lights at T-junctions.
    Want to prove it?
    Turn them OFF and watch the traffic flow.

    Junction of Collymore Rock/Pine Rd/Culloden Rd was, and should still be a ROUNDABOUT.

    Junction of Whitepark Rd/Passage Rd/Country Rd. should be a ROUNDABOUT.

    I’ll never forget how well the staggered junction at the top of Beckles Rd/Culloden Rd/Dalkeith Rd. worked, all by itself, UNTIL THEY TURNED THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS ON, now it’s a horrific Traffic Tangle and I avoid it like the plague.

  49. PAY ATTENTION, fools!

    Thank God for the tall-up seperators on the new hiway! They’ll keep us from jumping lanes.

    Thank God all the stupid little cross-over intersections are now DONE!

    Maybe now Barbados Driving will grow up.
    but not before a few inattentive old-fashioned fools die.
    Too many Bajans still think of “Motoring” as a pastime, dressed in a tweed coat, with that silly cap on the head, “out for a spin”

    If I need to waste time, there’s a place for it.
    It’s called HOME.

    Time spent on the road is DANGEROUS TIME.
    The roads are not a place for pastimes and skylarking.
    PAY ATTENTION as you drive.
    Stop chosseling!

    TURN OFF THE DISTRACTING MUSIC.
    Don’t turn it down, turn it OFF!

  50. reality check

    there are many on and off ramps in the world that go underground. Since drilling and cutting through porous limestone is a quite well known skill set in this country, was any engineering thought given to going down to avoid the unsightliness of overhead concrete. The ABC is well above sea level and one would assume sinkholes and emergency sump pumps could be made to look after torrential rains. Not as much steel ( Sorry Bizzy ) but I wonder if this option was seriously looked at and costed out?

    I guess we will never know?

  51. BigCountry,now!

    “Last night I had the challenge of navigating around a car stalled on the inside lane next to one of those concrete structures.”

    Why didn’t the mindless twit run it off onto the shoulder??
    Did he not realize the car was failing fast?

    Is he incapable of thinking ahead a few secs?
    Does he think about anyone else?
    – and the probs. his dead car would cause if he stalled it RIGHT THERE in a traffic lane?

    How come when my car is dying…the first thing I think of is.. how to get this damed thing OUT OF THE WAY and not create any more traffic confusion than already exists??
    How come?
    Because I’m a genius?

    NO… it’s because I have class and breeding, and my parents
    (two of them, a Mummy AND a Daddy! – imagine that!)
    brought me up to be CONSIDERATE,see?
    and to think of other people, not just MySelf
    and to realize that I’m not along in this world!

    THINK ABOUT HOW YOUR ACTIONS AFFECT OTHERS and act quickly and accordingly.

    Thank you for your attention to such matters
    the next time your car is in the process of breaking down.
    It usually takes two to three secs. to die on you.
    In that 2-3 secs a lot can be accomplished,
    if you’re not too self-centred and too “thick”!

    When it’s dying on you
    Consideration number ONE
    is how and where am I going to get this thing
    OFF THE ROAD AND OUT OF THE WAY.

    We can worry about the fault and the costs later,
    but remove your wreck NOW and park it tidily.
    Thank you for being a considerate human being!

    You are not alone in this world,
    there are 298,765 other Bajans all crowded onto this rock with you,
    and there are 123,456 other vehicles RIGHT BEHIND YOU, I promise you!

    GET WID DE 2007 PROGRAM, yuh sight?

    Time to grow up and lehwee play Big Country!

  52. Anonymous

    “Will cane tractors and backhoes be allowed on the single, middle lane?
    If so, the whole thing is a waste of time”.

    ha ha! You know good, nuh!

    Of course they’ll be allowed!

    So will bicycles and even wheelchairs,if need be.
    Furthermore, there will be zero enforcement, if I want to bring a long coconut or dray cart,
    coz there will be no laws to sort anything out
    and even if there were, we’d need a Police force to do some work for a change!

    ANYTHING GOES on the new hiway.
    – until a few people DIE
    – THEN stuff will get done.
    but people have to DIE before anything gets done around here

  53. NO PAINTED LANES, please !

    Lanes? We’re going to have LANES?

    That would mean PAINT.
    We can’t have PAINT on Barbados’ roads.
    That would be unthinkable.

    Oh sure we’ll have the original one coat of paint, and for the next forty years, it’ll be “Common Knowledge” where we Bajans are supposed to drive.
    God help the Tourist who arrived yesterday,
    but then thankfully, we’re not in the tourism business,
    so Tourists and their dying on our roads is not a big deal.

    Please… NO PAINTED LANES.
    That would destroy our Turd World image of the island.

  54. Yardbroom

    Big Country, Now!

    You might have displayed “class and breeding” in the traffic last night.

    But you certainly have not displayed evidence of it in your post now.

  55. J. Payne

    Not only that… The approach ramps to the “Flyovers” will be an visual impediment at the roundabouts…. Think about if a “ramp” was in the middle of the road. You turn off to the left side of it because you’re not proceeding straight through the intersection but are turning off to the side. When you look to your–right to see on coming traffic you’re going to be seeing beams and stuff for the flyover supports. And if there’s supports in the middle of the round about that will impede visibility on what’s coming around the bend at you.

    What I want to know is where did O$A go traveling to and see this half baked idea for a “flyover”?????

  56. Rumplestilskin

    Now, we gotta get a ole donkey cart or chugga-chugga to drive down de fancy new ting and let some bawl.

    Ooh, I gotta get to de wine bar for 6 o’clock; ooh, I goota meeting wid de Permanance Sexcetary; ooh, I gotta get to de airport for my shopping trip to Miami; ooh I gotta get to work for 8 o’clock; ooh, I gotta get to a chossel for 10 o’clock tonight; ooh, I have a golf game at 7:00am.

    Well, shoulda leff home earlier, not relied on a big chunk of concrete to get there.

    Eevn the M1 in England takes time to get along, with nuff traffic.

    We ARE an island. Get used to it!!!

    Wanna live in flipping Miami, with big able roads (wid big able COST AND MAINTENANCE), big able shopping centre (wid big able PRICES)?

    Then go!

  57. Rumplestilskin

    PS: So iffin the flyovers do move traffic a bit higher along the highway isself, what wunna going to do when wunna get to de townside?

    Bawl about more traffic and wanna bulldoze more land to egt bigger roads there too?

    Hey, let’s pave the whole place.

    At least Umerca would not mind one 26milex13mile landing strip in the middle of the Atlantic.

    Then lets find someplace else to live ‘just beyond our imagination’.

  58. Green Monkey

    PS: So iffin the flyovers do move traffic a bit higher along the highway isself, what wunna going to do when wunna get to de townside?

    Bawl about more traffic and wanna bulldoze more land to egt bigger roads there too?

    Rumplestilskin, you hit the nail on the head.

    Why building new roads doesn’t ease congestion

    An excerpt from Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream
    by Andres Duany, Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, and Jeff Speck

    North Point Press, 2000, pp. 88-94.

    There is a much deeper problem than the way highways are placed and managed. It is the question of why we are still building highways at all.

    The simple truth is that building more highways and widening existing roads, almost always motivated by concern over traffic, does nothing to reduce traffic. In the long run, in fact, it increases traffic. This revelation is so counterintuitive that it bears repeating: adding lanes makes traffic worse. This paradox was suspected as early as 1942 by Robert Moses, who noticed that the highways he had built around New York City in 1939 were somehow generating greater traffic problems than had existed previously. Since then, the phenomenon has been well documented, most notably in 1989, when the Southern California Association of Governments concluded that traffic-assistance measures, be they adding lanes, or even double-decking the roadways, would have no more than a cosmetic effect on Los Angeles’ traffic problems. The best it could offer was to tell people to work closer to home, which is precisely what highway building mitigates against.

    Across the Atlantic, the British government reached a similar conclusion. Its studies showed that increased traffic capacity causes people to drive more–a lot more–such that half of any driving-time savings generated by new roadways are lost in the short run. In the long run, potentially all savings are expected to be lost. In the words of the Transport Minister, “The fact of the matter is that we cannot tackle our traffic problems by building more roads.”2 While the British have responded to this discovery by drastically cutting their road-building budgets, no such thing can be said about Americans.

    There is no shortage of hard data. A recent University of California at Berkeley study covering thirty California counties between 1973 and 1990 found that, for every 10 percent increase in roadway capacity, traffic increased 9 percent within four years’ time……

    Continued at:
    http://gatewaysucks.org/why-building-roads-doesnt-ease-congestion

  59. Rumplestilskin

    Thanks for the excerpt. I am just a simple fellow.

    To see some ‘expert’ analysis that supports what us ordinary citzizens work out by commonsense makes the point all that more.

    Thanks.

  60. RoyBoy

    I thought I heard that Barbados has the best qualified (Phd?) person in the world for traffic management. Where is this Civil Servant? How is she/he earning her/his keep? Who calls the shots? Certainly not the “ignorant” Minister?
    only in Barbados?

  61. bashy

    Reality

    re underpasses.
    Barbados is a region of torrential rainfall. underpasses would very quickly fill up with water and be unpassable. Drainage through the porous rock and suck holes takes time there is already considerable problems of road flooding underpasses would add to this.Flooding would futher acerbate underground erosion and possibliy lead to ground failure.
    To cut an underpass would cause major disruption of traffic bearing in mind that the area of the abc highway is only 4 lanes wide .The ground conditions would make this a very costly and dangerous exercise.

  62. bashy

    Mr Payne

    You are supposed to stop and look on the approach to a roundabout not just rush accross willy nilly with a quick sideways glance to the right.
    The supports for the flyovers from the illustrations I have seen are slender and will not in anyway impede visibility.

  63. bashy

    apologies edit above to ‘slow down’ not stop on approach to a roundabout.

  64. TheWatcher

    Flyovers may look nice, but here is the reality as I see it.

    3S CANNOT build anything that I will drive on knowingly in the way of an elevated road.
    I question their engineering and worst yet now that they want to inflate the price 200%, I am a firm believer that corners will be cut if they face enough opposition to their greed-mongering!
    Is there REALLY a need for these?
    If businesses stagger work hours in such a way that not everyone is not jostling to get to work at the same time, then traffic can be alliviated to some extent. It won’t get perfect. And it certainly won’t return to the traffic levels of the early 90’s, but it will be better.
    Taffic patterns here are so ho-hum that one can experience a back up@ 10:00Am and it is totally gone @ 10:05Am.
    This does not make any sense. We like to talk about being a first world nation, but we are so far removed from this idea that is is not funny! A simple initative like staggered hours can’t yet take root because of the bird-brained nature of 98% or our businesses.We are way too un-productive and backward to even think about embracing ideas like these just yet.
    Show your resolve by tackling the simpler, more easily solvable problems, before going on on to the bigger ones.
    This entire issue has been raised based on the prospect of moving 90,000+ cars efficiently in 166Sq miles. Can’t happen. Just can’t!
    This is akin to placing 400 cockroaches in a Horlicks bottle with a hole in the top and trying to extract order by asking them to exit the bottle single-file. Ain’t happening!

    The cart is now in front of the horse, and it can’t be reversed so what has to be done is damage control.
    Unless a flyover is inordinately long, it will be useless in Barbados.
    Case in point: A Warrens flyover: Unless this could move traffic from the Warrens round-about to either The University hill brow or, The Shell Redman’s village junction you will effectively get on the flyover only to come off 300 to 400 feet right back into the SAME traffic you are attempting to avoid. Pointless!
    This ministry who has approved Jam-Busting and some other really silly traffic measures are in over their heads again.
    If Bizzy want’s to sell steel, then he can sell it to Cow, who can use it to “prop” up caves around the island as Barbados is peppered in sink-holes. This they probably need to consider so that their land investments don’t go spiralling down the tubes as Bajans will undoubtably want to know the the piece of limestone/coral land they are purchasing from these folk is not about to give way.

    Flyovers are just another ax-backward idea of The Conferderacy of Dunces; those who considered themselves wise.

  65. Kathy

    I know nothing about the relative benefits of traffic lights, roundabouts and flyovers. But I hope that we can rely on the integrity of the outside contractors, and the Barbados government, and the strict building codes in Barbados so that the flyovers will be strongly and safely built. That there will be no shortcuts on the reinforcement of the roads, and no collapses like the one in Britton’s Hill. The lives of the drivers depend on the honesty of the builders.

    ********************

    BFP Comments

    Kathy, we have no building code in Barbados, let alone a “strict” one.

    As to “integrity of outside contractors”, we only ask, how can we know if any outside or Bajan contractor has integrity if we have no freedom of information law, integrity legislation or conflict of interest standards?

  66. bashy

    ‘3S CANNOT build anything that I will drive on knowingly in the way of an elevated road.’

    Mr Watcher 3S really cannot be blamed for your lack of driving skills.If you feel unable to navigate a simple structure like a flyover it would indeed be the best policy to stick with the donkey and cart. At least then one of you would know where he was going.

    ‘If businesses stagger work hours in such a way that not everyone is not jostling to get to work at the same time, then traffic can be alliviated to some extent. It won’t get perfect. And it certainly won’t return to the traffic levels of the early 90’s, but it will be better.’

    You have not taken into account that many people drive their children to school so they would in effect be going out twice once to take their children to school and then again to go to work. in short doubling the volume of traffic.

    ‘Taffic patterns here are so ho-hum that one can experience a back up@ 10:00Am and it is totally gone @ 10:05Am.’

    Never seen it the backups are worse @ 10:10 Am

    .

    ‘This is akin to placing 400 cockroaches in a Horlicks bottle with a hole in the top and trying to extract order by asking them to exit the bottle single-file. ‘

    I do think you might address your fellow citizens with more respect . Unlike yourself there are people who do feel capable of taking on the challenge of a flyover and seeing Barbados move forward into the first world not forever wallowing in some idylic past which was really only idylic for a small sector of society.

  67. Kathy

    Without building codes, transparency and integrity, there is nothing to prevent shortcuts and substitution of materials, and no assurance that the flyovers will be properly constructed to support the daily rush-hour load for any length of time. After the money is paid, how long will the flyovers stand tall? How soon will it be before we hear of, or experience, a new disaster?

  68. bashy

    kathy

    Of course there are building codes and standards. There are also clauses in building contracts that protect both parties against all such eventualities.
    It is in the interests of the contractor to do the best possible job in order to maintain his integrity and enhance his reputation.

    ***********************

    BFP Replies

    A Building Code has been proclaimed into law in Barbados? Fantastic!

    When did this happen?

    Where can we get a print or online copy of the Barbados Building Code?

    Please let us know immediately, because just the other day Minister of Government Gline Clarke said that Barbados was “working on a building code” – which is the truth. We’ve had drafts and debates and discussions, but there is no law currently in force.

    Unless, of course, you can provide all of us with the document number, cost, and where we can purchase one of these Barbados Building Codes.

    Thanks!

  69. Crusty

    Barbados National Standards Institution, National Building Code, 1993 Edition. Cost BD $ 100 at the BNSI office in Collymore Rock.

    It was never made into law, but I think you will find that most major construction activity here meets this or similar criteria. Many times the British standards (BSI…), American standards (UL, ANSI, IEE, …) or European standards (EuroCode) are referenced in contract details.

    The lack of a National Building Code is most noticed at the private housing level of construction, where ANY body can build, as long as it meets the relatively superficial conditions stipulated by the Town and Country Planning Office, and the Environmental Protection Department.

  70. Straight talk

    bashy:

    As a 3S apologist, you must admit your initial survey was based on the premise that 70% of ABC traffic was Garfield Sobers – Warrens.

    A figure that I would challenge, however given that it is true the logical answer to this traffic congestion would have been another highway.

    Probably one mooted by the erstwhile flyover guru, Bizzy, i.e. St. Thomas roundabout -> COW’s new island -> intersection to Graeme Hall roundabout -> Six Roads -> Airport.

    That makes $100m of sense.

    Please send my commission to the Friends of Grame Hall Fund!

  71. Maat

    It is a pity that we cannot fire or change senior civil servants who come out with foolish ideas like spending our money on Fly overs and traffic lights. Even the mainstream media prints reports that show that larger roads and flyovers does not increase traffic flow more effectively when the number vehicles reach a certain level. Do these planners not read that many parts of Europe have found that turning off traffic signals has led to more courteous and cautious driving practises and increased traffic flow through these junctions.?
    Any Minister or civil servant that signed an agreement with a one year old company to spend over $100 million dollars of our money on roads, should resign or face been fired.
    Some ego maniacs do not care about the cost or the effectiveness of these fly overs, they just want Barbados to look “good” (or so they think).

    Peace

  72. Wishing in Vain

    I hold no degrees I went to the school of hard knocks but what I cannot seem to get over is these flyovers are moving vehicles to bottle necks at the various intersections once they exit the flyovers and highway what arrangements are in place to handle this new rush of traffic along these feeder roads into the city?
    As I said I am a simple person but the whole concept of this appears to me to be one enormous scam to rob us the taxpayers and line the politicians pockets.
    How does it help to have flyovers if the real source of the problem is the feeder roads into and out of the city and other congested areas?

  73. Get In The Action

    Interesting that after $100’s millions spent the solution could be as simple as removing all traffic lights on the ABC, allow for no crossing of traffic to turn onto the highway – merge left or right only, and removing ALL of the illegal vendors. Warrens roundabout is a clogged mess for two simple reasons – minibuses are not using the lay-by provided by the entrance to DacostaMannings, and there is a newspaper vendor selling his wares. It’s time to stop the illegal vending at the round-abouts and the feeder roads onto the highway.

  74. TheWatcher

    Wishing in Vain you have put this quite simply. What is a flyover going to do to relieve conjestion when we have nowhere to go effectively but back into the said congestion after exiting the flyover.
    It is like making another lane for 300 yards and then merging back into the original congested lane.
    Kudos to Matt. Your idea was well expresed and seems to be the sentiment ringing across the nation of those who still have functioning brains which are not clouded by frivolity.

    When I commented earlier, I seemed to have received a “Bashing” from someone whose name suggest just that.
    Let me assure Mr or Ms Bashy that 3S cannot be blamed for my lack of driving skills as you put it. But, in my own defense if I may, I have had a clean driving record for longer than the ABC Highway has been in existence.
    And YES! I HAVE been driving. So that is a MOOT point. Deal with facts as they are and not as you perceive them.
    What I posted earlier was stated in the first few lines of my writing as my opinion. We all have one and are free to express it here. Just as you did. What you lacked when you crafted your response to what I said,was the ability to comprehend what was said. You then went on to make certain assumptions and in them, attacked me for being stuck in the past and idealystic.
    You need to re-read what I said carefully.
    Moving on…

    If we are so bent on being a First World nation, we need to be able to solve problems like these and in creative ways as we do not have the deep pockets that the so called first world nations have.
    I really don’t know WHAT a first world nation is, or who has the right to conceive that definition,
    but the biggest “so called” First World nation there is on the map by the definition of a first world nation, really isn’t!
    I can now see a little more clearly than before that the minds of the prolitariat are ripe and open to propaganda in almost any form.
    Why do I say this?
    Well: $300 Million to build flyovers to nowhere and renovate a highway that most of the country is forced to use primarily because the remainder of the roads in this country are HORRID! As the old people would say
    Dat duz mek sense ? Uh?
    Fix de roads bout de island wid dat money fuss.
    Den boddah bout putting up new road.

    This way people can have CHOICES when they commute.

    First World Thinking?

    “Don’t implement staggered work hours because parents have to take their children to school!”

    Well, to be first world, you have to learn to ADAPT!
    School hours are already staggered. Not all schools commence at 9 or end at 3. We’ve already done and continue to stagger school hours effectively.
    So why woudl work hours be so had to implement now?
    That is also a part of the progress that you seem to want to much without first understanding how to chart the path towards it, and yet there is a working example right under our noses.
    Willy-Nilly implementations of ideas that we have seen during our travels or may have only heard of are not suited lock, stock, and barrel in Barbados.
    It will take careful planning and implementation to work on a smaller scale.
    When we as a people don’t understand something, we come out and subject it (and sometimes the call in programme moderators) to a beating.
    Case in point: The distance the island sticks out in the road at the Belle Junction for merging on/off traffic.
    There is NOTHING WRONG with the distace the island protrudes.
    The ISLAND IS NOT OBSTRUCTING A 3rd LANE of ANY SORT!
    It is principally used to clearly demark traffic entering the highway from the Belle and exiting the highway onto the Belle. If we had enough land(and wanted to show off how first world we really are) we would have two seperate laynes. One for mergeing on, and another for merging off. This onehappens to achieve both these functions in a single shot.
    The Jersey Barrier is to keep traffic clearly seperated at all times. It prevents (besides other things)people from overtaking into two lanes of oncoming traffic when they so desire based on nothing more than the need to drive wrecklessly.
    I have said what I have said because when examined in a wholistic manner, it represents good, prudent decision making on our part. I am un-apologetic about it and have nothing to gain or loose directly from it. I support good ideas and policies, and reject “fluff” thrown out there to detract from the real issues.
    If we would listen more to the “simple man”, the man on the street with a wealth of experience and knowledge. We would find that we would go quite far.

  75. bashy

    Mr Straight Talk

    ‘ the logical answer to this traffic congestion would have been another highway.’

    This would have involved huge expense and delays in the purchase of land from numerous private owners. Homes would have to have been compulsory purchased and destroyed. Not to mention objections from enviromentalists concerned about the over concreteing of Barbados.
    The government already had the land aquired so logically improvement of the existing highway was the correct course of action.

  76. J. Payne

    BD$360 million = ~US$180 million For that amount— Barbados could build about about 2-3 miles of fast moving monorail lines. along the same highway terminating at park and ride facilities.

    * How much does Monorail cost?
    http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

  77. Hants

    J.Payne it is obvious that the flyovers was an idea that popped into someones head and they just “ran with it” without looking for alternative solutions.

    A flyover will increase traffic flow. Therefore you get to the lineup at the next Stop sign or Traffic light faster.
    Solution: synchronize the Traffic lights to enhance traffic flow.
    So why not syncronize existing Traffic lights first to see how traffic flows.
    This is just my simplistic reasoning.

    There are several solutions to this problem and the monorail seems to be a good one.

    I also thought that a really good Transport Board providing good timely service would encourage more people to leave their cars at home but it won’t work.

    The middle and upper middle class Bajan will only use public Transportation when they are “overseas”. New York,Toronto etc.

  78. Gerald Browne

    To the people of Barbados:
    We only have ourselves to blame if at the next elections we choose to re-elect the Barbados Labour Party (BLP). If it is our choice to give them a fourth term, all the suffering that we will continue to experience we shall truly deserve.

    This BLP Government has proven to be a group of haughty, arrogant and deceitful mismanagers of the taxpayers money. They have failed to consult with the public on issues of national interest and bow to the whims and fancies of wealthy persons within and outside of Barbados. It is time that we, as Barbadians, liberate ourselves from the grip of post-colonial slavery.

    If the Minister of State in the Ministry of Finance, Clyde Mascoll, contends that the current state of affairs as it relates to the high cost of living in Barbados is not localised but a Caribbean phenomenon, it too can be suggested that the economic challenges faced by the Democratic Labour Party in 1991/1992 were related to a global economic recession.

    The BLP obviously believes that Barbadians are foolish. We have now reached the stage where capital projects are quoted in U.S. dollars. The Flyover Project is another example of wasting taxpayers money and fails to present a solution to traffic congestion in Barbados. Remember, P.M. Arthur said in 1994 that he wanted to see a car in every Barbadian household, thereby giving consent to a 400% increase in cars on Barbadian roads. The BLP created the problem and now don’t know how to fix it. Granted, their solution will inevitably fatten their pockets, lead to a worse situation for road users and a large debt for tax payers.

  79. bashy

    Mr Payne
    Car users would have to drive to get to these park and ride facilities in order to take the monorail. how would this alleviate the traffic problem?

  80. bashy

    Mr WIV

    Simply put the flyovers will do what they are intended to do free up the movement of traffic betwen two given points. If you find this concept difficult to understand you will be very pleasantly suprised by the results .

  81. Hants

    Flyovers will get you over the roundabouts faster but will increase the lineups at the next Major stop or Traffic Light.
    How is a flyover at the Warrens roundabout going to improve the flow of traffic down Green Hill or up through Jackson?

  82. Straight talk

    And another thing bashy, whenever did cost or economics enter government thinking re; the highway, or for that matter whenever the plan was approved by the Williams brothers.

    One could easily believe 3S Barbados were the patsy if one was so inclined.

    Shielding the major players and taking the fall.

    What say you, the omniscient bashy?

    Feeling a little exposed in the spotlight?

  83. Straight talk

    And also Hants zipping 60 vehicular bullets per minute from G. Sobers into the Wildey mash-up.

    Without Bridgetown traffic management being solved, ABC will forever stay, as it is now, peripheral.

    Another bottleneck, but not recognised as the same problem.

  84. Straight talk

    BFP:

    Hate to say this , but the BLP spoilers have defeated you.

    Your once proud democratic blog has succumbed to central control and lost its soul.

    Yes, the right wing sh*t purveyors were a serious challenge, but is this severely censored and controlled blog your very best response?

    You had them on the run and on the back foot to completely mix my metaphors, and then after what 2 days of moderation you have capitulated to their vile attacks.

    No more can we zap the instant retort, rebuff the false statement or even counter a simple argument.

    The whole complexion , and dare I say justification, of Barbados Free Press has been skilfully and effectively neutered by the BLP attack.

    Along with Mascoll type radio apologies the Government is having its unanswerable case accepted.

    Please reconsider this delayed posting, you are in serious danger of losing all you have achieved.

    There must be another way.

    *****************

    BFP Replies

    Neutered? Ya gotta be kidding!

    Thousands and thousands of Bajans who had never heard of BFP and the words “integrity legislation” heard about us last week through our print edition and mass emailings.

    Don’t mistake the inability to “snap back a response” to a couple of commenters as BFP’s “justification”. Ya gotta be kidding!

    Our visitor numbers are way way way up, and the government is about to suspend certain legal rights of all Bajan citizens in the hunt for BFP and BU. (more on that coming)

    The media was forced into mentioning the 3S kickback scandal and that wasn’t because our readers could “snap back” a response to someone’s comment.

    Straight talk, you just crank up that old ink jet printer and your emailing list and have them ready and waiting this week because you ain’t seen nothin yet kid!

  85. Government Doing What???!!!

    ” the government is about to suspend certain legal rights of all Bajan citizens in the hunt for BFP and BU. (more on that coming)”

    What did you mean by the above phrase BFP? What is going on?

  86. bashy

    Mr Hants

    Obviously there will be no traffic lights on the highway therefore there will be no major stops.

    ‘How is a flyover at the Warrens roundabout going to improve the flow of traffic down Green Hill or up through Jackson?’

    Very well as the traffic coming up and down Jackson and Green Hill will not have to compete with traffic going south down the ABC as this traffic will pass over on the flyover.

  87. Rumplestilskin

    ” the government is about to suspend certain legal rights of all Bajan citizens in the hunt for BFP and BU. (more on that coming)”

    Although I state that I will continue reading and contributing, in case of serious connection difficulty, I will state something now.

    Here:

    That the opinions of average citizens has been ‘aired’ on BFP over the last year, voicing legitimate concerns as to the resource allocation, wastefulness, mismanagement and incompetence that has occurred during the last several years of Government, is a great thing.

    The road to a new day is now short. As we approach the junction, let all of us decide carefully and with decisiveness as to our decision.

    A new day can dawn in a few months. A choice that only us can make, a choice that must be made.

    Change may be scary sometimes, but to be effective must be grasped with enthusiasm and courage.

    The only ones who can make this happen is us, the average citizen.

    Best wishes to all and to our Nation.

    Peace.

  88. bashy

    ‘What say you, the omniscient bashy?’

    Did you mean ommnipresient?
    Surely only God is ommnipresient.

  89. Straight talk

    BFP:

    “The media was forced into mentioning the 3S kickback scandal and that wasn’t because our readers could “snap back” a response to someone’s comment.”

    You must have forgotten, it was exactly because bloggers were able to snap back an answer that you even had the “Kickback Story”.

    “X” was reporting 3S’s point of view, “Idealist” rebutted immediately with the M&J Panama contract and “OOPS!” brilliantly thought of googling Danos with M&J to provide the slam dunk.

    All in 30 minutes.

    Snap back.

    **************************

    BFP Comments

    Hmmmmmmmmmm

    Yup. You’re right.

    We were wrong about that.

    So how do we regain this spontaneity short of 24/7 moderation – literally every second?

  90. Rumplestilskin

    That said, now re ” the government is about to suspend certain legal rights of all Bajan citizens in the hunt for BFP and BU. (more on that coming)”.

    Are you serious? If this is true, is the Government serious?

    The implications of such could be very far-reaching indeed.

    If instigated, attacks on the rights of citizens and perceived victimisation (for what other reason could such action be) would mean that not only will international human rights organisations become involved, but also Governments etc.

    Such an action could very well not only backfire, but snowball.

    Again having said that, we only have one shot at this life and to be live to our own expectations may require us to stand up and be counted.

    Maybe some are afraid to have their opinions attacked and afraid of the ‘retribution’ for having dissenting opinions.

    But maybe, just maybe, some may accept the call of the occasion to stand and create a new day.

    We shall see.

    Bear in mind some contributors may also have international contacts who may assist in the event of perceived ‘victimisation’, so such action will have its own consequences, including on direct investment into the country.

    Peace.

  91. Wishing in Vain

    Gerald Browne you are a brave and to be admired person to reveal your name, in this island you could be subjected to a lot of grief because of the position you stand for and yes I agree with you 100% in what you outline above, we need to act and to act now for our children and their childrens future because at the present rate we will be run out of an office at IMF in the almighty USA.

  92. not relevant

    this is the most significant media source on the island – bar none. Congratulations to the principals – keep up the good work

  93. Clear Up

    For the record, the quantity (tons) and type of steel fabrication to be used in the flyover project could not be made by “Bizzy’s” facility in barbados. It would take them about 5 years to produce the quantity of steel required. Along with the fact that they have not done roadway bridges before I don’t think they would want to start with a project of this magnitude.

  94. I think the Fly Overs are a great idea but there is something in their design that I believe will cause trouble further on. The Fly Overs are basically going to be single lane, that is one lane going and one lane coming, and I would hate to be in a hurry in the future on a Fly Over and have a car break down on it while travelling somehwere behind it and find that there is no way to overtake the obstructing vehicle. I can only hope there will be wide verges built on the Fly Overs to provide a means of escape from cars breaking down on those raised roadways. Talk about getting stuck and up so high too.

  95. Oh I forgot to mention also, I hope that they are not serious about only using steel. I hope the flyovers are concrete and steel. Any good engineer would know that concrete & steel together is much stronger than just steel alone. Plus anything looking like giant wrought iron bridges would be extremely ugly over land and especially on this exotic island paradise. Kind of like some of those very ugly raised railroads in Brooklyn. Encase the darn things in concrete, please.

  96. Wishing in Vain

    Best solution is not to have them at all that would eliminate Danos, 3S and abuot $ 200 of corruption and the likelyhood of like in Jamaica with a BARBADOS KICKBACK ARRANGEMENT

  97. BK

    If Barbados does not have a building code who from government is responsible for quality control? How are they going about it? Are they taking the word of 3S as gosple?

  98. theNickster

    Investing in a “smart” traffic system was the way to go. I must disagree with the idea against “stopping” on the highway for traffic lights. If the road system was treated like a circulatory system, them the best course of action would have been to examine where the blockages occur. With an “intelligent” system lights can be controlled to clear the major “arteries” first. Systems like this could monitor traffic congested areas and change the lights accordingly to “ease” the pressure.

  99. bashy

    Robert is not moderating very fast at all or are these topics closed now?

  100. bashy

    Sorry for repetition my post is still stewing in moderation.

    Steel is the way forward in bridges design. Concrete is heavier needs bigger foundations and is more disruptive to install. The flyover will have a slender design so they will be aesthetically pleasing. They will not look a bit like Brooklyn.

  101. bashy

    Mr BK

    Re quality control

    There are teams of engineers employed by the barbados government who are consulted at every stage of any government project to deal with quality control.

  102. bashy

    WIV

    You have got stuck in the groove again .

  103. passin thru

    bashy say “There are teams of engineers employed by the barbados government who are consulted at every stage of any government project to deal with quality control.”

    Two thing I say to Bashy:

    1/ I hope they are not the same engineers as said everything was OK 2 weeks before the Codringtons died.

    2/ It is not about engineering for me. What do I know about engineering? Nothing!

    For me it is about runaway spending and corruption. How could the government deal with a company which has not built any bridges or flyovers before? How could the government hire a company where the CEO was doing corruption on his last flyover project?

    It stinks it stinks it stinks!

    Tired so tired of these crooks take my taxes and indebt my children for what? Cricket World Cup, Flyovers, Hotels that are falling down.

    Jesus come soon!

  104. Wishing in Vain

    Bashy As much as you and your party hate to hear it,it is real the level of corruption is at an all time high with just about everyone in cabinet with an offshore bank account in the Cayman Islands.
    What I am eager to hear from you lot is what level of commission in the BARBADOS KICKBACK AGREEMENT did you lot settled for with DANOS, HOBSON, NICHOLLS,BANNISTER and ARTHUR?

  105. ??

    WIV guess you found that out when you checked the balance on your account??? : )

  106. Wishin in Vain

    Ask Hallam Nicholls

  107. Wishing in Vain

    Ask Hallam Nicholls he knows it well!!

  108. Numeric Discipline

    All this talk of remedying an uncontrolled amount of vehicles via improving and expanding road/hiway infrastructure,
    and not one word about attacking the other side of it.

    As we stand, I believe there are at LEAST 110,000 vehicles registered(not to mention UNregistered).
    There is no control over the numbers.

    Simpson Motors car park is full of new vehicles just waiting to further clog the already-clogged roads of Barbados.
    Soon it’ll be 147,000 vehicles on our roads
    (Nobody makes more $$ on vehicles than GoB, that’s why there’s no limit!).
    Soon it’ll be 216,000 vehicles, with no end in sight as to numbers.

    Road expansion and infrastructural expansion CANNOT KEEP UP with Bajans putting five hundred new vehicles on our roads every single month.

    Sooner or later, there HAS TO BE a cap put on the sheer NUMBERS of vehicles.
    Yes, but that would require balls, and no government, blp, DLP or even PDC has the cajones to stick dat pig, not one of them.
    And yet it HAS to happen.

    What convenient number shall be the cap?
    When Push come to Shove?
    250,000 vehicles on our creaking roads and flyovers? – 300,000 ?
    Let’s put it at a nice round half million vehicles.
    500,000.

    Can you imagine what a mere 200K is going to be like?
    What’s it like now at 115,000 ?

    No wonder I work from home, and think v.carefully to go out,anywhere.

  109. bashy

    Mr Passin thru

    Engineers come from the Ministry of Public works are you intimating that they are all crooks?

  110. bashy

    Mr ND

    Many people see the reduction of cars as the solution to the traffic problem. This would indeed be a very positive solution. But how would you determine who was allowed to own a car or not?

  111. passin thru

    Hello bashy

    I never said they were “crooks” or anything like that. I said that I hope whoever the engineers are on the highway project that they are better than the engineers who looked at the Codrington apartment 2 weeks before it all went into the hole.

    It is like brain surgery. Half the brain surgeons came in the bottom half of their class.

    Ya’ll better hope that your brain surgeon was in the top half of the class. Same with engineers.

  112. bashy

    WIV
    I am amazed how you know such things?
    How do you know who has an offshore bank account? Have you got one ?

  113. bashy

    Mr Passin Thru

    A thorough seismic survey was done on the highway prior to the commencement of the road project by a specialist company brought in for that purpose by 3s who have approached this project in a highly professional manner.

  114. passin thru

    Hey bashy

    I am sure they did the best they could with what old piece of garbage equipment they had. They didn’t have ground penetrating radar and that might have made the difference.

    Doesn’t matter how hard they tried though. They were WRONG. They f*cked up. They blew it.

    They were wrong.

    And people died.

    Would they have done a better job or been able to give a more informed opinion with GPR? 100% yes.

    Everything in life is a calculated risk. they calculated incorrectly.

  115. Bashy

    Mr Passin Thru

    As you say you are no engineer and no brain surgeon either.

  116. passin thru

    No I ain’t no brain cutter and I ain’t no engineer nohow. I can weld good. MIG TIG whatever you like I can puddle with the best and lay the finest bead.

    I ain’t no engineer, but I know that if I tried using the same welding equipment I was using 20 years ago nobody would hire me.

  117. bashy

    Mr Passin thru

    It was not lack of radar but common sense and conscience.Even the local children knew there was a whacking great cave under those apartments .

  118. bashy

    Mr passin thru

    ‘No I ain’t no brain cutter and I ain’t no engineer nohow. I can weld good. MIG TIG whatever you like I can puddle with the best and lay the finest bead.’

    I am sure that you can. Now tell me if you worked for 20 years for a company and then decided to go it alone form your own welding company would that mean you couldnt do a good job?Wouldnt your workmanship be just as fine in fact wouldnt you work all the better as you were working for yourself and wanted to establish the good name of your company?
    What would you say to those who say what you doin employing him he ain’t got no experience welding.

  119. Wishing in Vain

    How do you know who has an offshore bank account? Have you got one ?
    One only has to hang in the right company and a few too many drinks the mouth gets light and opens wide, I can tell you where, when and how I know but is not the forum for that as others are involved.

  120. bashy

    WIV
    One only has to hang in the right company and a few too many drinks the mouth gets light and opens wide, I can tell you where, when and how I know but is not the forum for that as others are involved.

    I see, you get your information from drunken bankers?
    Please let us know which bank then I can make sure my account isnt there.

  121. Wishing in Vain

    NOT bankers clown from those that make the deposits the deposits my friend.
    Rum is a brute and it makes you say more than you ought to sometimes, it was at a party that both Owing and Nicholls attended.

  122. bashy

    Cheese! small talk at parties ain’t what it used to be.

  123. Georgie Porgie

    Bashy unabashy took the cash and caused a crashy.

    Flyover farmlands bought out 30M
    Owen 3S give back 120M

    Pensioners hada eat cheque paper
    Treasury funds become a vapour.

  124. bashy

    Looks like poetry teaching ain’t what it used to be either.

  125. Georgie Porgie

    Neither the ethic of government.

    Ha ha!

  126. bashy

    GP
    Don’t give up the day job.