WINNER ANNOUNCED: Barbados Piggies At The Trough Award 2006

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Holder’s Land Scandal Involved PM Owen Arthur & His Friends, Richard Cox & David Shorey

And the winner of the first annual Barbados Piggies At The Trough Award is….(drum roll and bugle fanfare)…. Prime Minister Owen Arthur.

BFP’s Judging Panel had no difficulty in choosing the winner of this year’s award for two main reasons. Firstly, the deal you read about below was the subject of the most submissions. Secondly, because what happened at Holder’s illustrates what is wrong with the system we have now in our beloved country.

What happened? Here is the description from the person who nominated Owen Arthur and won the US$1000 cash prize…

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Environmentally Sensitive Land Impossible To Rezone For Development – Until The Right People Stand To Make Some Money…

The land (Holder’s) was zoned environmentally sensitive and was zoned for agriculture and the unsuspecting owner (Mr. B) was told by Town and Country Planning that it would never be rezoned for development. This would never happen, he was told, because of environmental concerns and because Barbados cherished its agricultural lands. All official plans said so.

However when it became known that the certain developers, the ‘rich neighbours’, were prepared to pay a lot if only the land could be rezoned and have certain permissions attached: the game started. Only problem was that this was inside information known only to a few including our winner Owen Arthur.

Poor Mr. B. was never told. Why should he share in the booty?

Here is how the game worked…

Mr. B. was pressured to sell the land at a reduced rate which maybe was fair for Zone 1 land. A group that included Richard Cox and David Shorey as front men raised the money to buy it. What the owner did not know, would never be told, is that the purchasing group included Owen Arthur who, although he did not put up any money, was allowed to share in the booty trough with the others.

Our Owen’s contribution was simple…

All he had to do was use his office to rezone and grant all the permissions the rich neighbours needed. Did this take the usual time period of years? Did the rich neighbours have to go through the usual channels? No to both questions. The new permissions for the property were granted instantaneously.

A check of the State of the Environment Report and the Physical Development Plan (Town and Country Planning verifies this) shows that there never was a plan or application to rezone this property before that and bingo the fix was done and the property was shortly flipped for a bundle to the rich neighbours.

How did they do it?

Simple. Owen Arthur, as supreme commander, just ignored and overrode all the land use and planning laws of Barbados which are, it turns out, shameful. He gets his piece and the owner gets to cry because he is not allowed to get even close to the trough. Owen didn’t ignore the environmental laws, because there are none in Barbados. We just found that out when the government put the dump at Greenland.

What is so shocking about all this is that the perpetrators of this deal did not break any laws!

The Prime Minister of Barbados did not break any laws because there are no laws that prevent him from profiting when he uses his power to override the Town and Country Planning Department, change zoning, and grant permissions arbitrarily whenever he feels like it. In other countries these are called Conflict of Interest Laws.

Also there are no laws that require Owen Arthur himself, as elected official, to disclose this transaction to anyone such as us dumb voters who pay his salary. We will never know exactly how much he ate out of the $20 million +++ piggy trough simply because he is not required to tell us how much he had before or how much he has now. In other countries these are called Disclosure Laws. We wonder whether Owen even paid income tax on his booty.

In fact there are no laws which require Owen Arthur or the other civil servants who work for us, the people of Barbados, to tell us anything at all about this transaction. In other countries these are called Transparency Laws.

And we are not allowed to ask. Nope, no Freedom of Information Laws, either.

Well of course we know how that works. As the Owen Arthur himself has told us there is no need for these type of laws since there is no corruption in Barbados. And he ought to know. We should trust our leaders to be good.

Oh, and as for the land owner…

Mr. B. he is out of luck. When the ‘rich neighbour’ decided it would pay a lot of money for the land when it was rezoned, nobody ever told Mr. B. Why would they? You guessed it: there is no law that requires that the land owner be told that his lands are about to be rezoned by the Prime Minister’s personal override of the system. So he has no right to claim that he has been fleeced.

In other countries Owen Arthur would go to jail for what he did and Mr. B would be the person who would get the profit from the sale of his land.

But not in Barbados.

There is no corruption in Barbados….and the trough keeps getting deeper.

About The Barbados Piggies At The Trough Award

The “Piggy” as the award is affectionately known, is presented annually to the Barbados politician or civil servant who best exemplifies the “chow down and climb right into the trough” spirit of Bajan corruption. The winner is the Barbados politician or civil servant who, in the opinion of the judges, best misuses position, political contacts or internal knowledge to benefit self, family or friends. (And yes, extra points are awarded for creativity or sheer brazeness.)

Here’s the original announcement about the creation of the award…

BFP Announces 1st Annual Barbados Piggies At The Trough Awards – US$1,000 Cash Prize For Winning Nominator

Cash Prize Of US$1000 Won By “Snippet”

More than a few people nominated PM Owen Arthur for this year’s Piggy over the Holder’s Land deal, but the Judging Panel chose “Snippet” because he/she provided the most complete information and obviously took a small risk to provide the information they gave us.

Snippet… we know that you wanted the money delivered by Option B on Thursday night, but we weren’t comfortable with the possibility that we might accidentally see each other’s faces. So… Option C… We had the money dropped off earlier tonight and it is waiting there for you right now. Hope it comes in handy after Christmas!

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192 Comments

Filed under Barbados, Environment, Offshore Investments, Politics & Corruption

192 responses to “WINNER ANNOUNCED: Barbados Piggies At The Trough Award 2006

  1. John

    I now understand what the S stands for, O$A.

  2. Anonymous

    I hate that dirty stinking dog Owen Arthur. Worst thing to happen to Barbados and ain even shame. When he come before God I hope he could handle it.

  3. Tudor

    Saw Owen Arthur on TV last night saying that the minority shareholders in BWIA should be protected. What about the minority shareholder in Kingsland Estates ? should she not have the same protection?
    Aren’t the same 2 piggies RC & DS involved in the Kingsland affair as well?

  4. foreign investor

    There must have been laws broken in this transaction because, if there were not, everybody who owns land is at risk.

    I am selling out and getting out of this lawless place!

  5. Out Dey In Bim

    Well done Snippet.Well done BFP.

    I HATE OWEN ARTHUR.HATE HIM REAL BAD.

    HE IS A STINKING GREEDY ‘RUMMY’ DOG.

    Now Dugid and Lynette Eastmond what you got to say about this article and the award.Will you now try to come and refute it – bunch a corrupt,lying immoral,thievin politicians.

    I hope all of you go straight to hell,but not before God make an example of you all for barbadians to see.

    STINKIN PARASITES.

  6. ross

    Well well well!

    Teiffin, rotten, crooks.

    Thank you BFP and especially thank you Snippet.

  7. Justice

    I don’t know who is your legal advisor, but do have him/her research the law on misfeasnce in public office, a common law offence. This action was not only morally repugnant but blatantly illegal too.

  8. Jupiter

    I hope barbadians wake up and finally take stock.

    By the way BFP who is Richard Cox,is he the same richard cox – head of CBC News?

    Long after Ali Baba and his forty (40) thieves leave office,the stench of corruption will linger in the corridors of power.

    I hope those who are close to opposition leader David Thompson get him to read this article and to remind him that we the voters will accept nothing less than immediate investigations and arrests once he comes in to office.

    I wonder how bajans are going to react when they see owen arthur in public now?

    Will they still fall over themselves to make him feel like a little god or will some be bold enough to tell him face to face how they feel.After all he is not scared to call up citizens,journalists,anybody he feels like and ‘cuss dem out’.

    The public need to vent about this on public radio and in letters to the newspapers.They need to even send anonymous e-mail to CBC and VOB.

    If they get enough calls and mail maybe one of them will pick it up and discuss it in a general way because we know they can’t go into the specifics.

    Maybe they could say something like this:Today in the B’dos Free Press,a ‘piggie at the trough’ award for the most corrupt politician was announced.

    Readers commenting are quite upset by what the article and information given by an anonymous contributor revealed about corruption in B’dos,and the persons who are alleged to be facilitating this corruption.

  9. J

    This just goes to show the blatant misuse of power in this island. It is just sickening and makes me feel the overpowering need to just leave here. Everywhere you look there is misuse and corruption occurring and I am just becoming more and more fed up. We as a people need to do something about this growing prevalence and these people need to suffer for their sins against the people in Bim.

  10. silent observer

    What are the names of the Shorey/Cox companies involved in these deals?

    I know of one – Classic Investments Ltd. whose directors are Richeard Cox, Allan Cox and Gerard Cox. Who are they and what are their connections?

  11. Tudor

    Silent, they are father, son & unholy ghost. Cox is the former head of Royal bank Of Canada in Barbados.

  12. Get in The Action

    Which is better? The corrupt gang we currently have, or the lackies and yard fowls of the other crew who have been in the political wilderness for 13 years. Just think of the years of graft they have to make up for and the orgy in that trough. Isn’t it time for a credible third party (not the PEP) made up of honest, hardworking, well-educated Barbadians who truely have this country and its people at heart?

  13. silent observer

    Thanks Tudor.
    Didn’t RC work for CCB also? Was he a rolling stone? He obviously gathered some moss in the process. But how much?

  14. aFBI

    Who are the lawyers who handled all of this?

    These people must be connected and not only to the PM.

    Where is the money coming from and going to?
    Wasn’t Classic set up by Edmund Bayley QC.
    Perhaps he can shed light on the situation.

    Didn’t I read somewhere that Classic and Life of Barbados Ltd. were in a joint venture arrangement, Life of Barbados Holdings, which was signed off by Sir Stephen Emtage?

  15. Carson C. Cadogan

    This is all well and good for Barbados Free Press and “snippet”. What we have here only presents half of the picture! If there is a “corruptee” then there must be a “corruptor”. I want Barbados Free Press to name the names of the person/persons in the private sector who are initiating this type of corruption. Showing public officials with their hands in the cookie jar is meaningless without exposing those providing the cookie jar. You are always calling for integrity legislation. I hope that you will include penalties for those in the private sector who are also involved. Publish some information as to who are the beneficiaries of this zone 1 to zone 2 fiasco. Do not only publish the names of the Politicians just because they are Black. Let us get some white names too.

  16. Justice

    Here comes Carson C Cadogan and others of his ilk to confuse the issue with issues of race, class, religion, sexual orientation etc., etc. We have a serious breach of law, morality and good governance by the leader of the government and we are hearing others do it too. This is no justification for such conduct. We shall get to the others eventually…after prosecuting the accused. All in good time, Mr Cadogan, all in good time….

  17. Carson C. Cadogan

    Just asking for fairness and balance. Is that asking too much?

  18. silent observer

    Carson, the “corruptors” seem to have kept a low profile. I believe we will find that this is more about green (money) than black and white.

  19. ross

    Carson, if you want to talk colour, what colour is Richard Cox? What colour is David Shorey?

  20. Kathy

    Carson, I think that the Coxes are white. I agree with silent observer that it is a green matter, not black or white. All want locking up, regardless of colour, which should be irrelevant. The “corrupters” would not have anything to corrupt if those with absolute power in the island just said “no thanks – I serve the people, not myself”.

  21. Anonymous

    Snippet, is it the white Cox or black Cox involved? You owe it to readers to tell us what you know. Also, who are the buyers of this rezoned land?

  22. ross

    Anonymous ask David Thompson. The opposition is who owes us. Snippit owes us nothing they have not already given us.
    Thanks Snippit.

  23. aFBI

    “Also, who are the buyers of this rezoned land?” Ask Owen Arthur and David Thompson. They both know.

  24. honeybee

    Wasn’t there a story in the Nation newspaper some time ago about this Holders land deal? I am sure I remember reading it. I think the story came from David Thompson.

    Perhaps Ms. Gittens at the Nation could provide it for us.

  25. Hants

    BFP can you at least provide some Barbados newspaper references to this story.

    That would give more substance to these allegations of corruption.

    Some of us are reading about this for the first time.

    I believe there are cases today of landowners being “setup” so their land can be acquired and rezoned in the future.

    I have come to that conclusion in 1 case that I am personally connected to as a result of which I stand to lose an “inheritance”.

  26. honeybee

    Hants, I think the article I read in the Nation was entitled something like “9 day wonder”.

  27. West Side Davie

    “Owen $ Arthur”

    I love it!

  28. RRRicky

    Where be Duguid?

    Hello Doctor?

    Doctor?

  29. Jason

    Senator Eastmond too where are you?

  30. Anonymous

    owen arthur is a dirty wutless sow. *****************************

    ******** Edited by Cliverton

    Name calling has always been part of Bajan politicks – witness Owen’s use of “negrocrat” and other offensive terms.

    Nonetheless, this poster went way over my line of acceptable name calling. A sow is a pig, so I guess that is ok on a Piggies At The Trough Award post – but out of context bad name-calling against a family member is not acceptable. Don’t do it again or you will be banned.

  31. John

    Sandy Lane has 3 billion it wants to spend developing the land.

    Owen needs to move Mangrove Pond before Sandy Lane spends their 3 billion.

    This is what is referred in the Nation, (will check the date) as the 3 billion dollar snag. I have it somewhere. It was just after a budget speech where Owen in closing boasted of the 3 billion in new investment due at Sandy Lane and it was followed the next day in the papers by Sandy Lane saying … close Mangrove Pond or else no 3 billion.

    But the real doosie is Greenland. Government seems to have sat on its rear end and not looked at incineration. This was shown to be an option since 1983. Neither party has much to shout about where this is concerned.

    Now Prof. Machel has told it as he sees it where Greenland is concerned. He may be ignored but at least someone who knows has spoken and confirms what the majority of Bajans know.

    Maybe the IADB will “guide” our Government in paths of righteousness, or maybe it will be the IMF.

    In a way, there is an element of justice in the making here. Corruptor and corruptee (CPI and BPI from TI) may become horribly exposed because of Greenland.

    Carson, if you must have a white person look no further than Sandy Lane. But the issue has nothing to do with black or white, only green.

    Maybe Golf and tourism are not in the long term interest of Barbados and this is why seeming deadends are coming to light.

    Maybe we need to take stock of just where it is we are going. It is a pity both parties see housing as such a pressing issue.

    It really is not, ….. water is.

    Colin Hudson was years ahead of us and Richard Goddard’s actions are easily understood.

    Pity both appear to some as white when in reality they are as Bajan as you can get.

  32. John

    The dates of the articles relating to Sany Lane and the 3 Billion dollar snag are 10th december 2004 to 13th December 2004.

    Unfortunately the articles can’t be accessed on line.

  33. reality check

    David Thompson did reveal this story at the time of the last election.

    Strangely enough the voters didn’t care enough and David has gone quiet. Why????

    Is he hiding his past behaviour or has he made his arranements and is the next pig who wants to get in the trough?

    People don’t care aout your past David but what you are prepared to do now in real terms for transparency, accountability, disclosure and freedom of information.

    Step up to the plate or resign!!!

  34. John

    William and Lynette must be still looking for the Physical Development Plan that may have passed them in Parliament and the Senate.

    The benfit of the PDP is that it is a taking stock of where we are and where we want to go.

    It has real potential if used wisely.

  35. Jerome Hinds

    Anonymous, I concur with your last comments on this issue !

  36. Justasking

    Anonymous, your crude personal comment regarding Owen Arthur and his wife are really uncalled for. BFP I believe that comment should be deleted as it really is too low. It is not a good reflection on BFP and the community that contributes here. It reflects on all of us.

  37. Hants

    Justasking.. I agree with you that the Anonymous comments are crude but this is what can happen in blogs when the language is a collection of normal words as opposed to profanity.

    I would like to think that most of us would leave people’s wives out of our comments.

  38. Get in The Action

    Justasking

    I agree with you completely. The comments from Anonymous are not only crude but counter productive. Despite the seriousness of this issue I think Mr. Arthur still deserves a level of respect. Add to the discussion, bring analysis, but don’t throw personal insults around.

  39. Carson C. Cadogan

    Just a reminder. The voters, the politicians bosses, did not care about this. They returned the BLP to power! Where do you go from here?

  40. Anonymous (n0t a hater)

    I was an anonymous to post on this, and wish to distance myself from the other anon. comments. Gutter sniping is ugly and purile, and not constructive in this forum. Having said that, I still have not seen any evidence presented by the BFP of malfeasance by the PM; hard evidence like what William Duguid posted re: Sandy Lane concessions by Thompy. BFP this is a serious issue, and if you want any credibility, you better come with the hard evidence.

  41. John

    I agree, those comments by anonymous are counter productive and uncalled for.

    Deal with the issues, have fun when you can but don’t go there.

  42. De Orginal

    Carson Cadogan you mean people like you do not care it seems but guess what several others care about things such as this. I say again we need Accountability, Integrity and Transparency in all sectors public and private so as to avoid such situations and allegations from occuring.

  43. Michigan State U2

    My husband and I bought an empty building lot in Christ Church almost seven years ago and we are finally ready to build our retirement dream home. We loved Barbados from the moment we saw it and we have been everywhere and I mean everywhere.

    Of late we have been hearing talk of problems with obtaining building permits. The issue so we are told is that the area we are in restricts roof heights to only a single floor bungalow, but we see that we are surrounded by homes that are two floors. We asked one of the neighbors how they were given permission to build two storeys and the answer was shocking.

    My husband and I are upset because we do not want to “do business” in the way that some of our neighbors have done to obtain permission for two floors. We are not used to this type of necessity because where we live people go to jail for asking for or giving or taking money to grant building permissions.

    Had we known about “HOW THINGS WORK AROUND DIS ISLAND” we would not have purchased a building lot. We are angry but mostly heartbroken.

    I wish that things were not as they are on your otherwise beautiful and friendly island.

  44. akabozik

    Michigan State: We are not all like that on Bim, but you can’t come to Barbados or any Carib/Central/South American country and expect to build a home in the same way you would in Michigan (if you are from Michigan). Sometimes outsiders are too demanding or rude. Or (and this is a big one) they don’t understand that your building inspector doesn’t have the authority to say “yes or no” to changes from the zoning regulations. In Barbados that kind of authority comes from on high. Don’t blame the building inspectors.

    We don’t know how to fix what you are talking about. We don’t know how to stop it. We can’t say anything about it and you can’t either or your “dream home” will always remain a dream. We can’t so much as get a passport without some small gift. That is a simple truth about Barbados and many other islands. Deal with it if you want your home built.

  45. Hants

    Michigan State U2 I suggest you take photographs of your neighbourhood and write a letter to the Chief Town Planner indicating your intention to build on your lot.

    Indicate that you intend to build a house in keeping with the neighbourhood standards and to fully comply with the Town planning regulations of Barbados.

    Do not listen to “hear say”. Call Town planning, visit their website and make your own judgement.

    If the lot you purchased has covenants respect them.

    I have submitted several plans to Town Planning in Barbados and never had a problem.

    Good luck to you. Barbados is still a great place to live.

  46. Justasking

    Michigan State U2, have you engaged an architect or just heard that you cannot have more than a single roof bungalow? Or have you checked with the Town & Country Planning Office. Get some professional advice and do not rely on rumours.

    Things are not perfect here but in my over 45 years I have never paid a bribe to any public official. That is not to say there is not some graft or corruption or hands greased here and there. Our problem is with lack of transparency and underhand and unethical condusc by people at the highest level. These include lawyers especially, politicians and their lackeys and some public servants. At least in the USA even people at the highest level can be held to account. Sadly not the case here unless it is some criminal offence.

    Akobozik you say “We can’t so much as get a passport without some small gift” did you really have to give a gift to get a passport? I have had several and just went through the the normal process. I know many people who have done the same and never offered any “gift”. If you are entitled to a passport and go through the process you will get one.

  47. Jason

    Maybe getting a passport is different for different people. North enders get treated different by gov’t workers than B’town people and that is the truth.

  48. K23B7

    Marcus: I deserve at least half the 1000 and you know it. You don’t answer my emails. Please recondsier waht I said.

  49. Hants

    Michigan State U2 since you have a computer you may as well start here.

    http://www.townplanning.gov.bb

  50. ruggedbajan

    You all get a life

  51. Pat

    Michigan State:

    Sell the damn lot and find another island to build on. Go have a look at Dominica. I am Barbadian and everytime I visit the island, I return to Canada more convinced that I will not return there to live. If in my very senior years, doctors recommend a warmer climate, it will NOT be Barbados; Dominica, Cariacou, Cuba, Belize – yes.

    Just reading about this fiasco with the ‘piggy at the trough’ makes me want to puke. Owens mother, a very pleasant and kind lady, must be rolling over in her grave. Father come for your world.

  52. trevor howard

    This is pure fiction, the credibility of which has already been discredited in the public domain. Here are the facts; Holder’s Dairy Industry Ltd. owned by a Victor Babb (Mr. B), through its agent, Mr. Clifton Neblett — former DLP member of Parliament for St. Andrew— applied for permission for change of use for 27.82 hectares of land @ Holder’s Plantation, St. James.
    On 9th October 1997, the Cabinet of Barbados on the recommendation of the BWA, agreed that the following areas should be released from zone 1 water protection to zone 2, Crab Hill, St. Lucy 323 acres, Sedgepond, St. Andrew 504.4 acres, Norwoods, St. James 181.1 acres. On December 22nd 1997, planning permission was given to Mr. Babb (Mr. B), by way of a letter addressed to his agent Mr. Neblett of “Rushleigh” Pine Gardens, St. Michael. In August 1998 Mr. Shorey and Mr. Cox purchased the said land from Mr. Babb (Mr. B), who had been granted planning permission EIGHT MONTHS EARLIER, hence it is absolutely untrue to imply that Mr. Shorey was given planning permission after he purchased the land.The author or authors really need to get a life if they want to falsely resurrect a matter that was dealt with almost 10 years ago. Perhaps they might also want to look at the land deals facilitated by a David Thompson with a Trindadian company, when he was a Govt. Minister.

  53. akabozik

    How convenient that Mr. Howard has access to Cabinet documents hours after this story came on the internet. !!!!!

    Says Mr. B has an agent!!!!!

    And Mr. B tells everyone he dont know he have some agent!!!!!!!

    Now waht is waht?

  54. akabozik

    Where be all this proof in the “public domain” Howard? Barbados govment have no “public domain”

    Show it!!!!

    B say he got no agent that he know about.

  55. Jason

    Interesting reading Mr. Howard’s account. I suppose it could be true or not. How are we to know with no transparency or disclosure laws?

    I notice that Mr. Howard lists lands that were approved to be changed over from one zone to another on October 9, 1997, but Mr. Howard’s account does not say that these lands were the Holder’s lands. We are left to assume this and it sounds like a slippery move perhaps.

    Is Howard being tricky ? How are we to know that these documents were not created after the fact today ?

    The Nation News should send someone immediately to interview Mr. B and Mr. Neblett to see what they have to say.

  56. K

    Is Clifton Neblett still living?

  57. Justasking

    Trevor Howard please show/tell us where all of this information is in the public domain.

    You say “On 9th October 1997, the Cabinet of Barbados on the recommendation of the BWA” was this Cabinet decision in the public domain?

    Snippett or BFP you need you need to respond.

  58. Jason

    With his easy access to Cabinet documents, Mr. Howard should be able to post a copy of all the relevant documents online.

    BLP Blog would be a good place to post them as they have already posted other government land documents when they nominated Thompy for the piggy award. The BLP should post all relevant documents online about this Holder’s allegation. They should be available anyways under transparency legislation but we don’t have transparency legislation.

    Post all the Holder’s documents online, BLP Blog.

  59. Frundel

    This thing about the sale of land at Holders is 1990s DLP propaganda that has been repudiated over and over again by the public disclosure of the facts. It is pure hogwash. The 2006 deal that warrants a special hogtrough award by the free press is the deal cut by David Thompson in late 2006 at a meeting in Miami with Donald Trump regarding the promise of the Grant of Casino Gambling licences to Trump in exchange for Campaign financing for the DLP. It is the 2006 version of the cola syrup deal It too sweet.

  60. John

    Trevor

    How I have seen this land scam work is that the landowner is repeatedly told he can’t get permission. It works on old people best, but is practiced without discrimination, depending on the prize and the proximity of money to buy the land.

    I know of one land owner who combats it rather simply. He applies, is turned down, he reapplies, is turned down etc. etc. etc. All the time he builds a paper trail and makes it difficult for a frontman to operate against him.

    I notice you omit the date on which Mr. B applied for permission, and also how many times he applied for that permission. Is there any particular reason for this?

    Now, what happens next in the scam is that someone agrees to purchase the land provided planning permission can be obtained. Up till then the land owner cannot get permission.

    Is the date you give for the purchase of the land by Messrs. Cox and Shorey the date on which the agreement to purchase, subject to Town Planning permission was completed?

    If such a conditional agreement exists, can you give the date on which Messrs Cox and Shorey signed it with Mr. Babb, or his agent?

    So just a few questions for you:

    a. How many times did Mr. Babb apply for permission?

    b. What are the dates of his applications?

    c. What are his application #s?

    d. When did he or his agent enter into an agreement to sell?

    The dates will tell readers a great deal, particularly if the file exists at Town Planning. It is rumoured that it doesn’t.

    I have seen another variation on the scam as well. This one happened back in DLP days. What happens is that the front man obtains an option to buy land from the owner, provided it gets permission for subdivision.

    Miracle of miracles it gets permission, the owner gets a buyer who appears out of the blue, and the frontman gets paid for extinguishing his option. This particular variation depends on inside information.

    This case actually happened up at Mangrove in St. Philip when the sugar workers windfall was used to purchase land for the Labour College. Big names were involved in that one. Never really came out.

    So Trevor, please be a little more specific so we stupid readers can judge for ourselves how this deal went down and what nuances were employed this time.

    We need to keep ourselves up to date on the variations on this scam that are regularly practised. They really are quite intriguing.

    Oh yeah, one last question Trevor.

    Was David Shorey ever a consultant for the Water Authority?

  61. Karma

    It should not suprise any right thinking Bajan that Owen Arthur and his Friends, David Shorey, Hallam Nichollis, Richard Cox et al are among some of the New Multi-million dollar men of Barbados. I support persons getting rich, but not in the manner these men have gone about the task. CORRUPT, CORRUPT TO THE CORE.

  62. John

    Trevor

    I am pretty sure I remember David Shorey as a consultant for BWA but I am not 100% sure.

    It seems he was consultant for almost everything that moved.

  63. K23B7

    I still be wanting my money. Mr. B never know he had some agent.

  64. John

    What would be interesing to do would be to find out who owns the land at Crab Hill and the land at Sedge Pond.

    Could never figure out back then why a BLP guy I know was always on about buying Sedge Pond to keep cows? Guess he was in the know!!

    Suspect the rezoning is on top the hill, like Four Hills and Rock Hall.

    We know what happened at Norwoods!!

    One last question Trevor.

    When did cabinet rezone Greenland from Zone 1?

  65. Royalrumble

    Many thanks to Mr Howard for his accurate account of the Holder’s land issue. I am however doubtful that it will have any impact on this blog. This blog is not driven by truth nor respect what is right in the dissemination of information. It’s sole purpose is the destruction of the reputation of persons and institutions upon whose foundation this country’s good name has been built.

    That it seeks to promote David Thompson with all his shortcomings above every one else in Barbados may well explain how it was possible that Barabbas was chosen over Jesus Christ.

    You are perfectly correct Mr Howard. The decision for change of use of the land on application 0852/05/94c was convered to Mr. Babb by letter 3064/30T.15 (95) from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Affairs well in advance of his sale of the land.

    It is quite pellucid from all documentations that permission was granted to the original owner of the land Mr. Babb through his agent Mr. Neblett and not Mr. Cox/Mr. Shorey.

    That Mr. Babb exercised his right as a private citizen under the constitution of Barbados by selling his land is not a matter for the Government nor the Prime Minister. No wrong was committed it this transaction and it is fraudulent, mischievous and untruthful for this piece of misplaced trash, the BFP to suggest such.

    I am having great difficulty with this DLP’s new land policy that suggest that the only person who has the right to sell land in this country is Thompson and the only persons allowed to buy land in this country are chosen Trinidadian friends. So that ordinary Barbadians who now want to sell their property for one reason or an other are being told that under a DLP Government they will be denied that opportunity. Yet Thompson can dispose of thirteen pieces of Barbados’ prime real estate to his Trinidadian buddies and earn a couple million bucks in the process.

    That the BFP has returned to this issue is evident of the level of desperation that has taking hold of this blog. They have now lost any cliam to public credibility.

  66. Jason

    I am always amazed at the ability of “ordinary people” on this blog to come up with non-public government documents in the middle of the night – complete with file numbers and Cabinet references.

    The rest of us may be cross-examined when we ask for a document at a government office, but royalrumble and friends have access to Cabinet documents in the middle of the night.

    I’m impressed!

    I’d be more impressed if they would answer the very valid questions raised by John and tell us all the applications by Mr. Babb: dates, agents, when applied, when turned down, and whether Mr. Cox and Mr. Shorey had in their possession an agreement of purchase subject to zoning change – prior to the approval.

    And also whether mr. babb knew he had an agent!

    None of the material that royal rumble or trevor howard posted has ever been in the public domain before tonight. They seem to have access to a file that has been missing for many years!

    Publish it all BLP. Publish it all. Every application by Babb, every refusal.

  67. Hants

    Royalrumble… BFP has not lost claim to public credibility.This is a blog.

    BFP is merely a vehicle for public discussion by a large number of people who are Barbadian or have an interest in what happens in Barbados.

    Unlike the Nation or the Advocate, the public creates the content.

    Just imagine what is going to happen when we start posting cellphone video on youtube with links to comments on BFP.

  68. K

    Did Babb know he had an agent and did he know that cabinet approval for the change of use was approved before he sold the land?

    That is THE question and simply answered by Babb himself. Who will speak to Babb?

  69. Hants

    Visit http://www.townplanning.gov.bb
    and read what it says about zoning.
    IT is very informative.

  70. West Side Davie

    Jason, you say you are impressed with people who come up with government documents in the middle of the night. They haven’t come up with the documents for Gline Clarke’s house yet!

  71. West Side Davie

    If David Shorey was a consultant for the Barbados Water Authority, isn’t that a conflict of interest that would be prohibited in most countries?

  72. Jupiter

    BFP

    Wuh loss,you manage to resurect Royalrumble from the grave.If he is indeed who we we were told by Velzo he is,ie Sylvan Greenidge – personal assistant responsible for spin – then you will understand these late night interventions complete with file numbers and all.

    N.B. They even try posting using the name freundel (stuart) but without the ‘e’ – frundel.

    It is clear that owen read this and he realises how much he is despised by ordinary bajans for his naked greed and corrupt,dishonest ways.

    I know influential people overseas are also reading this blog,and they are getting a clear picture of life here under owen $ arthur.

    Eyes have not seen nor ears heard what God has reserved for this man.He may wish he never entered politics and unfaired the very poor people that put him there.

    Even his colleague rawle eastmond and others in the party speak about his vindictiveness and him ‘persecuting ‘ them.

    N.B. BFP whenever you are on a serious trail like this one and put out the information ,lynette eastmond and dugid conveniently go underground.

    I suppose she will resurect to wish us happy Errol Barrow day or happy Valentine,and Dugid will come on to talk about some non – point at the BLP party.

  73. De Orginal

    I find this interesting I wonder if other documents references will get produced in short order I look on with great interest.Royal Rumble you are the man with info. How come you aint win de Piggie prize? I sure you got the info to support any nomination put forward. Maybe you can also publish the geological reports in respect of the Greenland proposed landfill. Thanks in advance. Your the man Rumble.

  74. Littleboy56@caribsurf.com

    Royal(pain -in -th-u-know-what)

    How come David Thompson has PUBLICLY talked about the shady Shorey/Dairy meadows deal and none of your colleagues has contradicted him or sued him???
    STRANGE!!!
    The 9 day wonder shows up Owen and his crooked croneys for what they are.
    BYE BYE BLP!!!!!
    That is the people’s cry!

  75. John

    RR, TH

    I refer you to an extract from the BFP article!! You really need to have read it before you go down the road you are going!!

    But keep going, we are all enjoying it out here.

    Here is the extract.

    “What is so shocking about all this is that the perpetrators of this deal did not break any laws!”

    Aren’t you saying the same thing as BFP, and better still, with the documentary evidence?

    Keep it up, nice job!!

  76. Jane

    Files, documents, application numbers? Amazing!

  77. Jupiter

    Let’s see:

    1)There is the Babb – Sandy Lane/Dairy Meadow deal

    2)There is the Kingsland Estates matter involving Mrs Knox

    3)There is the land Glyne clarke built on in 2 mile hill – land originally belonging to an old woman

    4) There was reference to another old lady and land that was stolen from her – I think ross or Jane spoke on that.

    5)You remembered the poor rasta man with a couple children who had I think a 1/2 acre in Lower Estate and Glyne Clarke wanted to acquire it for a playing field – because there was an uproar by the people and the man – the gov’t eventually backed down.

    I am sure there are more examples meanwhile these gov’t politicians getting rich.

    Dale Marshall – got his private sailing boat and property,plus all his earnings from companies e.g. Barrack etc

    Liz Thompson has her Prior Park house,acc,to a blogger here she also has lots in Cane Garden,got her house in Sandy Lane,got Construction nd other companies – living high of the hog

    Mia ‘the vampire’ Mottley has properties in Sandy lane,Worthing,Frere Pilgrim,Bucks in St Thomas – interest in Construction Companies,Jose & Jose and other deals

    All of them are involved along with their buddies in milking the the Public Purse – whether through Companies they set up,or through special contracts or consultancies.

    Do you honestly believe we can just continue to sweep this under the carpet.Like Carson Cadogan I too ask the question:what’s next?

    BFP any suggestions?

  78. Justice

    Everything said by Mr Howard is true. What he omits is critical, however. An agreement to buy and sell land at a price just above its value SUBJECT to a condition precedent of planning permission being obtained is quite familiar to law. The seller can’t get permission, try as he might, so he seeks the best economic value for his land. Surprise of surprises, permission is then granted, fulfilling the condition and the contract to sell becomes binding! The buyers let a few months pass, for appearances sake, and then enforce performance of the contract. There is form, and then there is substance….jokers.

  79. John

    I love the appearance of files and letters in the dead of night.

    I’ll bet some of these have never seen the light of day for some time.

    Who says it isn’t possible to improve productivity through Public Sector reform.

    It is working!!

  80. Jerome Hinds

    RoyalRUMBLE and Trevor Howard you all should be shame. You have failed to clarify critical areas of this land debacle !! Critical question, at what stage was the land changed from zone 1 to zone 2 ? You speak about the BFP losing credibilty.

    Until both of you answer that critical question on this issue, the two of you have NO CREDIBILTY !!! PIMPS of Owen $ Arthur!!!!!!

  81. John

    The Physical Development Plan passed in parliament in 1991 would not have on the change from zone 1 to zone 2 as a change the people and parliament authorised.

    I am just wondering out loud.

    When the amendments to the 1991 plan were presented to the public for their approval, prior to going to parliament for final approval, exactly how was the chanege in zoning spelt out?

    If the PDP with 2003 amendments has not been approved by parliament, then is it incorrect to say that the land remains zone 1?

    Perhaps its just that the cabinet acted ultra vires!!

  82. John

    I guess the answer to my question is no, it would not be zone 1 land …. and there are at least 3 billion reasons why.

  83. silent observer

    To the powerful and well known oppressors and victimizers. Oppression, victimization and causing people to live in fear of it will no longer work quite the same way here in Barbados.

    There is light at the end of the tunnel.

  84. Royalrumble

    Barbadians will remember Thompson’s pledge to spend $3 million in the next election. They will also remember that under the last DLP administration he deliberately disobeyed an instruction given to him by Sir Lloyd Sandiford on the issue of casino gambling in Barbados.

    Will Thompson disclose to the public of Barbados the full extent of his deal with Trump? It seems clear that the DLP’s alternative economic plan for Barbados is full scale CASINO GAMBLING?

    Barbadians have already spoken quite clearly on this matter but it seems that having disobeyed Sir Lloyd Thompson is now willing to disobey the electorate. Can Barbados manage the level of social dislocation as a result of this full scale gambling? Maybe this is the reason why Thompson and the DLP were critical of the Government’s meeting with the Churches recently to engage them on a way forward for Barbados?

    It would be interesting to hear the DLP’s pimps and bandits on this blog on this issue. Do you really think that there will be A Piggies At The Trough Award and Thompson would let any body other than himself get it?

  85. sickofit

    de spin doctors (royal rumble and trevor howard) are out. these people have milked the public purse and enriched themselves, refuse to disclose to the public their private business dealings and then have the audacity to act offended when challenged. if you have nothing to hide you should not be afraid to disclose! its not just the politicians who are corrupt. they cannot work alone. there are civil servants who are just as blameworthy and people in the private sector with the money who fuel the corruption.
    anyone notice the similarities in ruthlessness between owen and tom? he learnt well from his former boss.

  86. John

    Silent Observer

    Sorry to disappoint you.

    The “Empire Strikes Back”, always!!

  87. Jerome Hinds

    Royalrumble you continue to rumble from your rear !

    What casino gambling bull…. you are trying to resurrect. You wish right thinking Barbadians to applaud you and Arthur for squandering taxpayers funds and no accountability be given.

    Because you have been able over the years to ‘ buy out ‘ some pretenders to the DLP throne you now believe that every Barbadian can be hoodwinked and BOUGHT.

    So your strategy ??? Continue to promise ( and do not deliver ) Cuss the people ( when we -BLP – cannot/do not wish to give the truth ) Create spin ( when we – BLP – choose to deceive).

    But just like years before – the people (electorate ) will deal with you ********* !! You *********!!!

    **********

    Auntie Moses says “wash out your mouth” Jerome!!!!! There are children in the room.

  88. JR/BDP

    Will Thompson disclose to the public of Barbados the full extent of his deal with Trump? It seems clear that the DLP’s alternative economic plan for Barbados is full scale CASINO GAMBLING?
    ____

    Give it a rest you idiot. The BLP’s economic plan for Barbados is to sell all the land to rich foreigners and steal some of the proceeds on the side. Now you want to claim righteous indignation over casino gambling? And you have the GAUL to speak of social dislocation? Shut up, idiot. The BLP blog is at labourparty.wordpress.com. I think you may have made a wrong turn in cyberspace.

  89. Just Wondering

    Hi BFP,
    Love your site keep up the good work. Just wondering if we will be seeing the “runners up” or “consolation prize” winners as well.

    Though the competition is about one winner the site is about providing information.

    I am sure quite a few government ministers and cronies though sad to see their leader exposed like this, breathed a sigh of relief that it wasn’t them who won. Don’t let them get away!!!

  90. De Orginal

    My friends why are we letting Royal Rumble to distract us from what is going on. He talking $%#@! bout Casino gambling and we running off behind he. I see he post just before me wid file numbers and dates we should call in the police to investigate the break in at Cabinet Office cause that the only place he could get that data. So just forget the nonsense about David Thompson and Trump. He not the Prime Minister of this country…..yet. Rumble show me you is the man and publish the Greenland report for we nuh. ifind these political types only cant see wrong doing on one side. While we bloggers here at BFP we interested in Accountability Integrity and Transparency. So Rumble be Transparent publish the Greenland Report for we. While you at it maybe you could leak the Louis Lynch Report also the CBC financial statements, maybe even a copy of the St Joesph Hospital Report, even better yet the true cost of this Cricket World Cup. I would even like the election date, the date the people of Emmerton gine move, explaination why we need flyovers and if the company that involved get the full payment for the flyovers or better yet a copy of that contract. Also on my wish list is when are we going to get an update on the Porters situation. Not a word from the Minister of Town and Country Planning. I know we gine get an update tonite. Cabinet meet today so Royal Rumble since you got the info share it wid we the citizens have a “Conversation” wid we nuh.

  91. Jerome Hinds

    Auntie Moses, like PM Owen sometimes it becomes imperative to use ‘ muscular language’.

    That was the response he gave to me and fellow journalists in St. Lucia after he launched his
    ‘ muscular language ‘ – Bajan style – attack in PM Keith Mitchell and others….

    I concur with you it is not good to pattern oneself after a bad example!!!!

  92. De Orginal

    My friends why are we letting Royal Rumble to distract us from what is going on. He talking bout Casino gambling and we running off behind he. I see he post just before me wid file numbers and dates we should call in the police to investigate the break in at Cabinet Office cause that the only place he could get that data. So just forget the nonsense about David Thompson and Trump. He not the Prime Minister of this country…..yet. Rumble show me you is the man and publish the Greenland report for we nuh. ifind these political types only cant see wrong doing on one side. While we bloggers here at BFP we interested in Accountability Integrity and Transparency. So Rumble be Transparent publish the Greenland Report for we. While you at it maybe you could leak the Louis Lynch Report also the CBC financial statements, maybe even a copy of the St Joesph Hospital Report, even better yet the true cost of this Cricket World Cup. I would even like the election date, the date the people of Emmerton gine move, explaination why we need flyovers and if the company that involved get the full payment for the flyovers or better yet a copy of that contract. Also on my wish list is when are we going to get an update on the Porters situation. Not a word from the Minister of Town and Country Planning. I know we gine get an update tonite. Cabinet meet today so Royal Rumble since you got the info share it wid we the citizens have a “Conversation” wid we nuh.

  93. EcoFreako

    Incineration as a “solution” to our garbage disposal problem is NOT an option.
    ANY form of combustion, no matter how hi or lo the temp. it’s done at..ADDS CARBON TO THE SEWER WE CALL AN ATMOSPHERE – the one global atmosphere all 6 billion humans (and animals) are forced to share, on this Our Only Planet (now in crisis!)

    Our Garbage Disposal solution lies in using the stuff as LANDFILL to create extra Barbados acreage, somewhere along/attached to our coastline.

    We select a deep bay, put sheet-piling across its mouth and start back filling!

    Barring that (not in MY backyard!)..we create a garbage island just offshore somewhere in the (100-150ft.deep) ‘gutter’, just inland of the offshore banking reef that comes to within 60ft. of the surface
    (“Fathom” and ‘Dottins’ are 2 examples of that offshore banking reef that just about surrounds this island) – yes it will be unsightly: garbage is like that,duh!

    Other solution?
    Bajans cease to create 1,000+ tons of garbage a day:
    let’s see you accomplish THAT, instead!
    Now..which is the lesser of those evils?

  94. Anon

    You on the wrong page Ecofreako.

    Read the comments above and see what we’re discussing and then wheel and come again,alright.

    Dis ting too serious to laugh yeah.

  95. Rumplestilskin

    Re Royalrumble and Casino Gambling:

    Unfortunately there is a lot of hot air traversing Barbados over the ‘Casino’ Issue.

    I have heard a more accurate and real point made that there ALREADY IS casino gambling here, just with a different name…slot machine arcades. What do you think casinos are but massive slot machine arcades albeit with a few card tables and roulette added?

    However, the spin doctors here have managed via semantics to convince the public that we do not have and should never have ‘casinos’.

    As for social dislocation. Yes, a large foreign corporation coming in and setting up casinos will cause the select few who currently have casino monopoly to lose substantial profits.

  96. Rumplestilskin

    Oxford dictionary definition of Casino: public room or building for gambling.

    We already have casinos.

    Some here call them slot machine arcades.

    They are casinos, but it would not suit some to call them such, huh.

    As for ‘social displacement’ new, foreign run casinos would cause, you mean greater than the current scenario of drugs being sold in schools, alcohol freely sold to minors at nightclubs, minibus drivers et all hitting on schoolgirls (and succeeding).

    Ho hum.

  97. Golden Claw

    Dat tree hugger musse smokin de sensi! did he mean lesser of two weevils? Now dat is a political statement relevant to dis here!

  98. Emmerton

    Wasnt there some talk by Owen Arthur of retiring with $300,000 couple years ago?

    Cant remember the details and if this info came from Owen himself. Anyone remember that one and the context?

    Another Owenism I want to hear about was his weeping in Parliament when he was in Opposition. Can anyone give details on above?

  99. Littleboy56@caribsurf.com

    Royal……(whatever).
    Meeting with the churches proves nothing!
    An adulterer who only three years ago stood next to Beverly is now standing next to Julie with a 7 year old!!!!!
    You cuss Thompson for not wanting to stand next to him?
    After all Thompson has a stable relationship, and according to a recent comment at a DLP meeting …..”all his children’s ages started from zero,not seven….”.
    Ha Ha Ha!!!

  100. ross

    Emmerton
    You mekking sport. $300,000? More like $300,000,000?

  101. Emmerton

    ross
    LOL hahahahhehehe I did say a couple years ago.

    Mia was salivating at thought of tekking over. Then Owen change he mind. That is a man that can change he mind quick so, boy.

    Seriously though I want to hear more about his talk about retirement then and the tear shedding in Parliament.

  102. Kelly

    I have to agree that this issue the manipulators behind the BarbadosFreePress are trying to create over the Holders Land is pure hogwash. Nothing has countered the facts as stated. Planning permission was granted to the owner of the land Mr Victor Babb on application by his agent Mr Clifton Neblett. That planning permission was given in 1997 and Mr Babb subsequently sold the land to Mr Cox in 1998. It is impossible therefore to sustain any argument that any special favours were given to Mr Shorey or any of Mr Arthur’s friends as is being alleged. It is to the discredit to BarbadosFreePress that it is seeking to try to make this matter that has been fully ventilated before the public of Barbados, as long as seven years ago, now appear to be something that is new and improper. If anything, it reflects only the desperation of the cowardly ones who are behind this so called Barbados Free Press. To be quite frank, this hold episode and this blog carry the stench of the leader of the Opposition David Thompson and is reflective of his style of politics that has destroyed the DLP and that has caused that party to see seen a place from which good people are fleeing day by day.
    David Thompson should try for the first time in his squalid career to come up with somethng that would give people the opportunity to see him as being a positive influence on Barbados. But what is on this blog indicates that this is too much to hope for. This is Thompson’s work pure and simple.

  103. Anonymous (n0t a hater)

    I am leaning towards Kathys corner. BFP, If snippit, or more properly, guttersnipe, provided you with evidence to support his allegations, where is it? What about the mysterious K23B7 who keeps begging for a slice of the bounty? Does he have something to prove any of this? Come on guys, this is the sort of thing that hamstrings free speech in Bim. People talk alot of shiite with nothing to back it and it almost proves the need for the archaic libel laws that suppress real dissent.

  104. Kathy

    I find BFP quite impartial, significantly more so than the Nation. If the government were to change, I would be confident that BFP would continue to report on the real news, and let us know what is really going on.

    I myself have heard from more than one landowner that could not get planning permissions until their land was informally or formally contracted to be sold, and we all know who has the last say over the town planning office.

    I would really like to know what the Prime Minister’s net worth is now, and what it was when he came to office, bearing in mind what his salary has been over the time. Barbados does need some transparency to keep its public servants accountable.

  105. Kathy

    P.S. Kathy is not Kelly. I was misquoted before also on the religion discussion, a while ago. I don’t know any real gossip about the politicians’ personal lives. I am out of the loop there as well as in their public lives and monetary transactions, as are most Bajans.

  106. Anonymous (n0t a hater)

    Sorry, I meant KELLY! Kellys corner. yes. Sorry Kathy

  107. John

    Kelly says

    “Planning permission was granted to the owner of the land Mr Victor Babb on application by his agent Mr Clifton Neblett. That planning permission was given in 1997 and Mr Babb subsequently sold the land to Mr Cox in 1998. ”

    Royal Rumble says:

    “You are perfectly correct Mr Howard. The decision for change of use of the land on application 0852/05/94c was convered to Mr. Babb by letter 3064/30T.15 (95) from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Affairs well in advance of his sale of the land. ”

    Trevor Howard says:

    “Here are the facts; Holder’s Dairy Industry Ltd. owned by a Victor Babb (Mr. B), through its agent, Mr. Clifton Neblett — former DLP member of Parliament for St. Andrew— applied for permission for change of use for 27.82 hectares of land @ Holder’s Plantation, St. James.
    On 9th October 1997, the Cabinet of Barbados on the recommendation of the BWA, agreed that the following areas should be released from zone 1 water protection to zone 2, Crab Hill, St. Lucy 323 acres, Sedgepond, St. Andrew 504.4 acres, Norwoods, St. James 181.1 acres. On December 22nd 1997, planning permission was given to Mr. Babb (Mr. B), by way of a letter addressed to his agent Mr. Neblett of “Rushleigh” Pine Gardens, St. Michael”

    Lets say the application number from Mr. B is correct, ie 0852/05/94c . This means he made one application in May of 1994.

    Is this the only application he made? Did he make earlier ones?

    Royal Rumble says change of use was communicated by letter reference 3064/30T.15 (95). Lets say this reference is correct.

    Does the (95) reflect the year the letter was written?

    Kelly says that planning permission was given in 1997, which conflicts with the assumption that 95 refers to the year.

    Trevor Howard says on December 22nd 1997, planning permission was given to Mr. Babb (Mr. B), by way of a letter addressed to his agent Mr. Neblett of “Rushleigh” Pine Gardens, St. Michael”

    So if we discount the 95 from Royal Rumble, it looks like these three together a saying that Mr. B applied for planning permission in May of 1994 and received it on 22nd December 1997, three and a half years later.

    Here are some questions:

    1) Is the three and a half years a reasonable time to wait for Town Planning to render a decision?

    2) Was the zone change of October 1997 contemplated in the application of Mr. B?

    3) Were there other applications from Mr. B besides the one of May 1994?

    4) Was there a conditional agreement between Mr. B and Cox and Shorey?

    5) When was the conditional agreement signed?

    6) …and finally for those familiar with the Electric Company, what about Naomi?

  108. John

    The water resources study was undertaken I believe around that time, 1996-1998. I seem to remember David Shorey’s name mentioned in connection with that study.

    There was a study in 1968 and one in 1978. This last one was a bit late as it coincided with the time when the 1978 study was predicting we would have reached the limit of abstraction of Ground Water.

    Was the recommendation from the BWA to cabinet as a result of that study?

  109. John

    The other thing happening around 1998 would have been the beginning(?) of the rebuild of Sandy Lane.

    Lets say that took some planning and would have been on the cards for a few of years prior. My memory is a bit fuzzy here. They would have been after Govt for concessions for the money they were spending.

    Add in the Greenland decision, 1994/1995 and the allegations of why this decision was taken. Also look at the delay while nothing was done and the lack of energy in pursuing a solution to Garbage. It is almost as if it could wait.

    Maybe in this case I have added 2 and 2 and come up with 5 but it looks like Greenland, Mr. B and Sandy Lane are in the pot with Mr. Cox and Mr. Shorey and that there is a common thread pulling them all together.

    As time goes on I am sure we will get more data to put them all together. For the moment, old time Bajan commonsense is all we have to go by.

    For the moment it looks like there was money to be made and in Barbados, we all know what that means and how it works. That was probably the common thread.

  110. Jerome Hinds

    Pinpoint analysis John. Keep it up !!! The tails of those 2 (Royalrumble and Trevor Howard ) need to catch afire on this issue!!!!

  111. Out Dey In Bim

    As I read the comments of readers in this section,I couldn’t help getting angrier and angrier as I reflect on how these BLP politicians after they have ‘tiefed’ everything in sight,will at the end of their term be getting a large pension.

    How can it be fair to reward wrongdoing?

    I don’t think these BLP politicians and maybe even some DLP ones understand the depth of our anger and frustration at not being able to effectively and directly do anything about this big set of ‘tievin’ ie until elections times – the date of which is determined by the head ‘tief’ himself.

    But to think that after arthur has accumalated millions and millions of dollars of taxpayers money,he now gets to enjoy a big pension.

    And us the taxpayers,what do we get?

    A big,bundle of debt that we,our children and children children will be paying back for years and years to come.

    We get pushed out from the sea coast land and into the gullies and rab land,while the rich ‘foreigners’ and the BLP ‘tieves and cronies’ enjoy the sea breeze and the houses on the heights and the cliff with the spectacular views.

    We get diabetes and high blood pressure as we are forced to eat white rice,macaroni and potato with little meat and no vegetables,while the merchants rake in the profits and get knighted like :Sir allan fields,Sir david seale and Sir john stanley goddard.

    We get our lungs filled up with the smoke from the old cars while we ‘flying over’ on a flyover and the gov’t friends and families enjoy the 80 new BMW’s plus the Lexus jeeps and other mercedes benz that the transport ministers enjoy courtesy of simpson motors.

    And we got to pay them a pension after all of that?

    Should never be,no,no a thousand times no.

  112. John

    There a few more pieces to this puzzle to ponder.

    Firstly, Bennets. It received change of use to allow BS&T to sell to Sandy Lane and secondly Mollineux.

    How did their timing fit in with Mr. B.?

    The domino effect then extends across highway 2A and brings in Bucks and Vaucluse.

    Bucks is pretty interesting too. Pass through the road linking Shop Hill to highway 2a and see what you find.

  113. Pogo

    There is an election coming this spring just after we see King Arthur crown himself with glory at the CWC finals and before it comes out that debt and greed have been on the rise while income from cricket visitors has been dismal.

    Please, please can we find a politician who will stand up and say “Bajans ain’t gonna take this anymore. I stand for transparency laws, conflict of interest laws, and freedom of information laws.”????

    The lady or gentleman who does this will get elected in a landslide. It would be a whole new start for Barbados and the road to success. Right now all the big shots who run our country are doing is fleecing the country, putting us all in debt, and partyin’.

    Doesn’t sound like Thompy is the cure the way things are goin’. Don’t see him denying he has sold out to Donald Trump.

  114. Jane

    Stay tuned Crusty.

  115. John

    ODIB

    “We get pushed out from the sea coast land and into the gullies and rab land,while the rich ‘foreigners’ and the BLP ‘tieves and cronies’ enjoy the sea breeze and the houses on the heights and the cliff with the spectacular views.”

    The sea coast land was traditionally considered to be of little value. Now, it is highly valuable. I am not sure that we got pushed out from the sea coast land. I think we walked away from it, with our pockets stuffed with paper.

    With regard to the heights and the cliffs with the spectacular views, the sad thing is that there would be any building on them at all, whether by us or by the people you mention. They refresh the soul, as the seacoast did.

    I think it boils down to how we view our land. We seem to see it as a commodity we can sell for a pound and a crown rather than an asset of long term use to us, financially and spiritually. The situation you lament is a natural follow on to this attitude.

    I am going to get risque here but I think it is somewhat akin to the attitude African chiefs must have held towards their people and which contributed in no small way to the slave trade.

    The result will be the same!

    We have survived for getting up to 400 years on this island. That is about 16 generations. For the first fourteen, while times were hard, there was at least a future.

    Maybe I am a pessimist and will be taken to task, and rightly so, but it just seems as though there is no future to what we have become, and this has happened in about two generations. It isn’t only the politicians/chiefs that have caused it, its all of us. There is a disconnection from the land that has occurred.

    Our forbearers may have been exploited and had hard lives but somehow they clocked up 14 generations on this rock … and it was largely theirs, with some foreign ownership as well. they figured it out, now we must too.

    Will we be the generation to break the link to the future.

  116. David Thompson

    I don’t believe big people can waste so much time writing “JOBBIE… PURE JOBBIE!!!”

    LONG LIVE OWEN S. ARTHUR & THE BLP!!!

    Any sensible person would never put a DLP administration in power… They just don’t have what it takes to run a country and SENSIBLE people know that.

    I realise from reading this website that you guys are truly pathetic… Why hide here and write this JOBBIE??? If you have so much facts and know so much come out in public with it then!!! But that will never happen right?!?!?! Why??? Because it is pure and utter JOBBIE!!!

    BLP… BLP… BLP… BLP… BLP… BLP

  117. John

    Wow David, you found us!!

  118. Emmerton

    BFP you should draw the line on posters using well known names. One of your conditons should be that.

    Like the poster above using David Thompsons name. That poster’s droppings shows us that he is an idiot unlike our next prime minister. You should disallow him using DLP leaders name.

    Posters should be disallowed from using Owen Arthur etc names as handles. Posters should be discouraged from using those names.

  119. Justice

    As long as there is anonymity and freedom of speech on this thread, Emmerton, you are going to get people like that. It wouldn’t surprise me if “Owen $ Arthur ” himself intervenes soon. In any event, the other David Thompson would have written “MANY “facts and not “MUCH” facts as his namesake did. By their deeds you shall know them.

  120. Jane

    To Royalrumble

    Crusty, this might be of interest to you too.

    Royalrumble’s comments on this blog suggest that official public documents may be available.

    Royalrumble please see if you can find application 2654/12/91D and the response letter 3064-30T.198(1991) dated 18 August 1992.

    A truck passed by and some papers fell off.

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to tell the public how to go about finding information such as the above without having to depend on trucks to pass by.

  121. aFBI

    “By their deeds you shall know them.” I agree Justice.

    They are cowards under pressure.

  122. Kelly

    Thought that I would take this opportunity to reinforce the point that Kelmanomics is far removed from the incoherent and rambling teachings of the Eastern Economic Guru – David Estwick.
    The recent article which carried the comments of a representative of Standard & Poors clearly brings out my point. It certainly confirms what Prime Minister Arthur and other persons like Professor Frank Alleyne have been saying about our economy. Judge for yourselves…
    —————————————————————–
    Date December 31, 2006
    by TONY BEST
    BARBADOS IS HEADED for a “rosy” 2007.
    As a matter of fact, the country should record robust economic growth next year, with expansion reaching as high as five per cent.
    But that’s not all. Inflation was likely to be moderate; and overall, the economy should fire on most, if not all, of its cylinders.
    That upbeat economic forecast has come from Standard & Poor’s (S &P), the world’s leading independent credit rating agency of nations.
    The Wall Street-based firm believes a combination of the benefits from Cricket World Cup, a boom in private and public sector construction and a levelling off of high oil prices should put Barbados in a strong economic position in 2007.
    However, the big question would come in 2008. What happens after a robust 2007?
    Richard Francis, the S &P analyst who monitors the performance of Barbados and who has correctly forecast economic developments in the Caribbean country in the past two to three years, told the SUNDAY SUN that all signals point to a good year, even a “rosy” year for the island.
    “Obviously with the Cricket World Cup the outlook for economic growth in Barbados is good and furthermore as you know there is a lot of public sector-private sector construction going on as well, which should kick the economy into a robust position next year,” he said. “We are forecasting over four per cent, maybe five per cent growth next year.”
    In an exclusive interview, Francis, who only a few months ago predicted the Owen Arthur Administration would raise interest rates in order to dampen the credit binge, said there were few “ifs”, “ands” or “buts” about what would happen in the country in 2007.
    “Things look rosy for 2007 but I think the question comes in more when looking beyond 2007,” Francis said. “Looking at it from the medium term that’s where it is expected to be and when it would become more of the issue… . The worries for us is the very high credit growth over the past few years which down the line could be problematic.”
    Another worrisome trend was the very high current account deficit, Francis added. However, he was quick to say that S &P, which several months ago kept Barbados sovereign credit rating at BBB+, one of the highest in the Caribbean and Latin America, expected the deficit “to moderate” in the next 12 months as “some of the public sector construction tapers off”, along with some of the private sector construction.
    The analyst wasn’t particularly worried about the country’s recent return to the international money market to borrow US$65 million, contending that right now Barbados’ credit picture shouldn’t cause anyone to have nightmares.
    “If you look at the numbers, the external debt of Barbados is actually fairly low in comparison with a lot of other countries, despite the fact that the gross debt level is relatively high,” he said. “A lot of that is internal debt so I don’t think it is much of a worry right now. The worry comes if the balance of payments doesn’t improve down the line. That could put more pressure on the external position of the country.”
    He said the foreign obligations accounted for about 30 per cent of the nation’s total debt portfolio.
    The economist added that with international oil prices expected to stabilise at between US$62 and US$63 per barrel in 2007 and with Government moving to reduce the growth of credit, inflation should come down, he speculated.
    “Inflation ran relatively high into 2005 and 2006 and oil prices will tend to help” bring it down, Francis said. “If the Government is successful in tightening the credit growth that should tend to diminish inflation. The other thing is that the (Barbados) Central Bank is more keen to make sure there is no balance of payments pressures, given the fixed exchange rate which tends to keep inflation relatively low.”
    —————————————————————-
    I believe that David Estwick should stick to the medical profession!!!!!

  123. aFBI

    Kelly do you think S&P considered the shenanigans when they did their forecast?

  124. Out Dey In Bim

    Look BFP and fellow bloggers,it’s obvious that you have these blp guys scared and on the run.

    How can you explain royalrumble aka..you know who – turning up on this site in the middle of the night with file numbers and dates.

    Then we had probably the same person or another party hack under the guise of a Trevor Howard.

    Then we had a Freundel – without the ‘E’ – Frundel
    Speaking on behalf of the BLP.

    Now we have a Kelly (supposedly dennis Kellman) and a David Thompson.

    To tell you the truth the offerings from one ‘david thompson’ made me laugh until my sides hurt.

    He thinks there is a lot of jobbie on this site – lord, I can’t remember when last I heard that word.

    Got me laughing again just typing it.

    However he must know a lot about Jobbie since he and arthur and the rest of them lying down in the middle of the jobbie heap.

    All of this is emanating at the same time out of Roebuck street or in the offices at Bay street.They are all sitting round their computers putting out this ‘Jobbie’.

    Tell us please David Thompson about Mia Mottley and those bite marks.

  125. Inkwell

    It appears to me that Trevor Howard’s post put this matter clearly to rest, provided that the information provided is factual. Mr B, albeit through an agent, applied for and obtained permission to develop a parcel of land. Eight months later he sold that land. To whom he sold it is irrelevant, since, having obtained T & C permission to develop, he could have sold it to anyone. Simplicity itself. In the face of this evidence, how can a charge of corruption be reasonably maintained?. Or is this piece of gossip too juicy to let go? If my logic is naive, please explain.

    How do you respond, BFP? It appears to me you have been misinformed.

  126. Justice

    Inkwell, he could only have sold it to anyone if he was NOT already contractually bound to sell it to anyone else. Are you pretending not to understand this or simply (forgive me, Naive) naive? Answer John’s questions re number of applications, dates etc.

  127. K23B7

    Inkwell, Royal Rumble and a few others are not doing so well in their defense of King Owen $ Arthur.

    Same with the business of Gline Clarke living with his woman in a house built on land expropriated by his own government and serviced by his own Ministry.

    Duguid come on here, post some information here, answer none of the relevant issues and then say “there. It is all explained. He was just shagging that woman for a night or two”

    Never answer questions about how much money Gline Clarke got into the place, about how the woman can afford to buy the house, the land. Never answer questions about if any money of Gline Clarke’s is in that house or land. Avoid answering directly if he live there when everybody knows he does.

    Then say “nothing to see here go away. nothing happening”.

    Same with Royal Rumble and Inkwell who say “there. All explained. Now go away”

    We don’t have to take that nonsense anymore and Bajans be mad as hell!

  128. K23B7

    When cabinet secret information, documents, file numbers and partial histories about a land transfer and rezoning are produced at 3 in the morning, everybody can see who’s undergarments are soiled now!!!!!!

  129. Inkwell

    I am not trying to defend anyone. I am an observer looking objectively at the evidence presented. Justice says “”IF” he was not already contractually bound to sell it to anyone else.”
    Passing judgment on the basis of “ifs” is unsound. Is it a fact or a supposition that a contract for sale existed prior to the granting of T & CP permission?

  130. John

    Here is one factual date, that is on the site, compliments of William.

    It is 4th July 1994. It comes from the concession letter which was used to propose David Thompson as a possible candidiate for the Piggies at the Trough award.

    https://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2006/11/10/barbados-labour-party-blog-nominates-dlp-leader-david-thompson-for-piggies-at-the-trough-award/

    If the town planning application number from Mr. B is indicative of a date, ie May 1994, then we can put together the following scenario.

    Mr. B applies in May of 1994 for permission for change of use.

    Sandy Lane is at the time probably lobbying Government for concessions.

    It is conceivable that Sandy Lane has approached the owner, Mr. B, to purchase the land.

    In July of 1994, David Thompson’s letter grants Sandy Lane the concessions it seeks.

    Then there is an election!!

    Four years later, Mr. B. sells his land to Mr. Cox and Mr. Shorey who then resell to Sandy Lane.

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!

  131. Jane

    John, this sounds very like at least one other concessions story I have heard that happened around the same time.

    “hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!” Thread?

  132. Jane

    Cuh dear BFP, give us something to stop us guessing, nuh?

  133. John

    This blog site continues to amaze me.

    In the same way as BFP had the pieces contributed by many pople we actually saw the same thing unfold before our very eyes.

    First fact: Date of application from Mr. B. contributed by Kelly

    Second Fact: Date of Concessions to Sandy Lane, contributed by William

    Third Fact: Date of change of use contributed by Trevor/Royal Rumble

    Fourth Fact: Date of sale, contributed by Trevor and Royal Rumble.

    It is amazing how different persons contributed toward the confirmation of BFP’s story.

    Obviously there is a contributor who felt the prize was his/hers, but for me the part played by all of us is amazing.

    OK, there are more details which can ice the cake, but each of us put a piece to the puzzle.

    I never imagined people with such different interests could work together to one end.

    Thanks BFP for bringing us together.

    There may still be hope for BIM.

  134. Jerome Hinds

    A bunch of desperadoes!!! That reference directed to Royalrumble and his other BLP minions. No amount of hogwash from you will deflect the questioning minds of right – thinking Barbadians. Your ‘ GESTAPO ‘ tactics won’t work around here !!!

    Mr. Harold Hoyte is right – read Nationnews of 2007-01-05. Mr Hoyte states, ” The BLP …….is good at camouflaging the problems in their party”

    How does the BLP do this????

    By responding to legitimate questions of Barbadians through the use of name changes e.g the ” David Thompson “, ” Kelly ” and other ” spin names” on this BFP site and other places.

    But since you ******** are at, why you all did /does not adopt the same tactics with respect to questions raised about :

    1. The Gline Clarke Land issue?

    2. The mess at CBC ?

    3. The Warrens buliding mess ?

    4. The GEMS gravy train ?

    Since it was the DLP who primarily brought these issues to the public’s attention, let us hear you address them using YOUR ” NEW ” ‘ David Thopmson’ and ‘ Kelly ‘ persona !

    While you are at it, create a persona for questions 3 & 4 using the name Clyde Mascoll. We would really ‘enjoy ‘ hearing from him!

    We have not heard from that ” locked ‘JAWS’ ***** in a while !!!

    ********************************************************************

    Jerome!!!!!

    Auntie Moses is gonna flail your bottom you keep up wit de bad words! You ain’t never seen a b***h yet you never seen Auntie Moses when she mad!

    You been warned twice now.

  135. Limey

    Thought I’d take a break from the corruption which is Tony B-liar’s UK, and enjoy your lovely island while he’s off freeloading in Miami.

    I read about the Porters incident, and was shocked by the arrogance of the adversaries, riding roughshod over procedure without fear of repercussions.
    As it turned out there was neither, no action by the authorities, and the property dealing Fairless off scot-free buying a chunk of the fourth estate.

    The only victim being piggy in the middle, Senator Eastmond.
    One can only imagine the diabolical forces which brought the poor man to such a wretched state. Proper representation versus colleagues’ duplicity,
    He seems a well meaning representative and I wish him a speedy recovery and the courage to expand on his VOB manifesto promise.
    Are there bars on the windows of ward A6 ?

    Then along comes another tale of the Wild West coast, this time the alleged robber barons being the PM and his sidekicks.
    I love how the story ebbs and flows with BFP standing back, with cards up its sleeve.
    At least I hope it has, it would be a pretty poor inauguration of “the Piggy Award” if it was bluffing, and that’s all there is.

    BFP claims that it had many entrants with valuable information, and we’ve had claims and previously unpublished facts from at least five members of this blog, so I’m positive there’s more to come after RR and T Howard have finished digging their hole.
    As Napoleon said “Never interrupt your enemy while he’s making a mistake”

    As a visitor I don’t know the people involved, I even have to look at the map to find these places, but as a thriller reader I think the elephant in the room is the agent, Mr Neblett, I’ve read enough about the BLPs politics of inclusion, even RRs family, not to rule Mr Neblett out on account of his previous affiliations.

    Thanks for a great read and if the dénouement is not before the weekend, I will follow it avidly from home, and look forward to future posts re: the dozens of other serious submissions.

    Love your island, love your people, love the freedom of expression made possible by BFP. Please don’t let them shoot the messenger.

  136. BFP

    Limey says “… I love how the story ebbs and flows with BFP standing back, with cards up its sleeve…”

    Cards? Poker?

    Nah… we never play cards. Wouldn’t have a clue what you’re talking about Limey…

    😉

    Robert

  137. BFP

    Look… on the horizon!

    Is it a bird? A plane?

    Nope… its a flock of chickens coming home to roost!

    🙂

    Cliverton

  138. Out Dey In Bim

    John

    Re:Your post jan 5th – 11:40 a.m.

    Your post seems to have been held in moderation,sice I’m now seeing it for the first time.

    Yes you are right on the history of the coastal land,but I daresay that seem to be mainly applicable (ie bajans not recognising its value) to the west coast.

    Traditionally,bajan whites bought and held on to land on the south and east coast where they had permanent homes as in the south coast and vacation homes on the east coast.

    One reason I suspect for the lack of appeal on the west coast might be the proliferation of small districts complete with their wooden chattel houses which dotted the west coast line.

    There were never any true middle class enclaves like worthing,hastings,rockley etc. hence bajan whites stayed away.

    Any way I agree that the bajan citizens were the ones who sold off their property,but a lot of that had to do with the high land tax bills they were getting as their property appreciated as wealthy ‘foreigners’ came and built mansions next to their little chattel structure.

    However what we have now is a deliberate policy by a government – which mind you – is supposed to be making laws and establishing policies for the good governance of the people,but are instead cashing in on our patrimony.

    They have sold us out for a mess of pottage.
    But God in his wisdom and the people will deal with him and his party.

  139. Ronin of the Void

    ODIB, your analysis of why white bajans prefer the east coast for holiday homes is flawed. The west coast is as hot as the devils arse, with no breeze in which to cool off and drink a rum. The South coast lands are close to Bridgetown, a logical place for suburbs, and all races and economic groups live shoulder to shoulder. The west coast, apart from Holetown (middle class enclave?), was mainly agricultural land replete with rats, sanpees, mangooses and the constant threat of cane fires, not to mention mosquito infested mangrove swamps. Old timers used to call wast coast beachlands ‘crab land’ and had little use for it. But bajans, like you, like nothing more that to denigrate their brothers for any reason they can manufacture, black or white. Bucket load of crabs, this whole goddamn place. Dat is why the Trini’s and Guyanese coming down here and mekkin crab and callaloo soup. De fowls done roosting already.

  140. Jerome Hinds

    Auntie Moses, probably bastards and bitch were
    ‘ bad ‘ choice of words but not bad words – in Bajan palance !!

  141. John

    ODIB

    I’ll tell you something about the east coast if you promise not to say anything.

    Many of those houses started as boxes in someone’s back yard, were dissassembled, transported down by truck, perhaps mule cart, and carried to where you now see many of them along what was probably no more than a track at the time.

    They were reassembled, improved upon and countless families enjoyed their time down there, long before there was an East coast Road.

    … and guess what, some of those people who started their houses from scratch own the land through squatters rights. They got it for free.

    Land in Cattleswash was of little or no value when the forebearers of the current owners started. Now, it is highly prized and for some a bone of contention.

    Those Bajans who enjoy Cattlewash, black, white and coloured, continue to do so because for them it is the closest thing to heaven.

    For me, I enjoy spending a day, but too much mud when it rains …. and the sea is too cruel.

    So like most Bajans, I ain’t interested in living down behind God’s back, but dat don’t mean I don’t love it to visit.

    Some Bajans see a colour bar but I see the sea. I ain’t stopping down dey too much.

    That sea ain’t got no back door.

    … and therein lies another reason why most Bajans abhor the coast for living.

  142. Out Dey In Bim

    Ronin of the Void

    I don’t know where you are going with this colour thing,because that was not my intention.

    All I was trying to do was give my interpretation to why bajans were selling off their west coast land,and why you weren’t saying this happen as much on the south coast.

    So please don’t bring this black/white thing with me because that was not where I was going.

    John

    Got your comments,too tired to respond right now.

  143. Pat

    John, lay off the East Coast. Behind God’s back you say? Speak for yourself. It is the most beautiful part of the island and I know every nook and cranny like the palm of my hand.

    It is true, however, how some of those bayhouses started. Boxes in the back yard, complete with outhouses. I remember some were no bigger than our pig pen. Road? The old train line. Bumpy, potholed and oceans of mud. You are right the sea down there is cruel and dangerous. So much so, that I never learned to swim. Still love it though.

  144. Juking Board

    Gotta question for you ROTV. Why dont white bajans support black businesses? I ask that because black patronage of white businesses is overwhelming. Cuh dear you dont think there should be reciprocity( I got that word from one of Mia’s empty but big word speeches.)

    You mean blacks going always be consumers while others accumulate vast wealth thru selling. How are you all tonight Sir Seale, Sir Fields, Sir COW and maybe soon sirs Bizzy, Kyfinn, G. Cave etc.? So level with me ROTV or any of your soulmates out there.

  145. Kathy

    Bajans should support Bajan businesses, not black or white businesses. The only exceptions for me would be (1) the crooked lawyer in Manhattan, (2) any business dealings associated with Classic and the Prime Minister, and/or (3) anyone ripping off the people of Barbados. I will not knowingly support these people or their associates.

  146. Anonymous

    In his “Brief Encounter” with this blog, Trevor Howard authoratively states that in 1997 the cabinet rezoned 181.1 acres at Norwood, which includes we are led to assume Babb Estates application for 27.82 hectares ( 73.29 acres ).
    If there was something underhand about the Shorey/Cox deal, who had the windfall from the rezoning of the larger parcel of adjacent land?
    Fore!!

  147. John

    Anonymous

    Was this part of Bennets?

    I’ll bet BS&T did not need to go through a middle/front man when they sold Bennets to Sandy Lane.

    To me the issue is that the GOB, acting on my and possibly your behalf, disadvantage another citizen using laws applicable for all.

    Mr. B was screwed by you and me, or at least, in our names.

    … and to what end? Do Messrs Cox and Shorey contribute to the overall economy of Barbados through employment? I am willing to bet Mr. B employed more people than the two of these gentlemen combined ever did.

    B&T is powerful and no GOB, or SOB is going to mess with it.

    Now an individual like Mr. B and countless others can be taken an advatage of ………. but that is where anarchy starts. If the GOB can do it to one it can do it to all, and they will until enough people realise that anything goes and decide also to take the law into their own hands.

    When RR, TH or Kelly can say no laws were broken, the sale happened months after the change of use they entirely miss the point. It is what happened over the four years prior to change of use that irks any thinking person. It entirely destabilises the rule of law and anything can happen after that.

    Pat,

    I know and love every piece of the East Coast too. I would go there for a walk in preference to any other part of Barbados. It refreshes the soul. But I would not live there.

    I was trying to show that the coastal lands of Barbados have always been of low value to Bajans in money terms.

    Their real value I think is measurable more in moral or spiritual terms, not money. But all land now is viewed as a piece of change and once that is the case, we shouldn’t cry if it goes to the highest bidder.

    Now if we valued our land differently, we would fight like hell for it.

    I also hoped to show that there are Bajans who love Cattlewash and Bathsheba real bad and while I am sure thay will be happy with the increase in money value of their properties, (except for tax), that is not the reason they have houses/homes there.

    At the other end there are people like me, and perhaps you, who also love it but aren’t going to live there.

  148. Out Dey In Bim

    John

    You said”if the Gov’t can do it to one it can do it to all……until the people realises that anything goes they will then decide to take the law into their own hands.”

    The truth is more and more of us bajans have already noticed that anything goes in this land – there is no rule of law applicable to this lot in gov’t right now – like say happens in T’dad – where corruption is rewarded with convictions – whether you be a prime minister,chief justice,ruling party chairman and minister.

    Just in case someone says its political,the USA has sought extradition orders for a number of Panday top men for money laundering and other crimes that extended into the USA.

    Owen tells us that we are patterned after the westminister system – that is until question time and the opposition asks questions in the house and he blatantly ignores them;

    That is until questions are asked about ministers sudden increase in wealth with their conspicuous consumption,their friends also becoming millionaires overnight,the obvious conflict of interest in ministers dealings e.g ownership in companies etc – and west minister goes through the window.

    Where else except in banana republics, will you have a minister coming out and accusing his prime minister and fellow ministers of persecuting him and refusing for 12 years to give any ministerial assistance?

    Answer – Only in Barbados

    So the BLP yardfowls can talk as long as they like about UNDP human index and poverty millenum goals – it means nothing to the vast number of bajans who can’t get proper housing,can’t get a decent meal,can’t pay their mortgage,can’t school necessities for their children etc

    When last did this Gov’t pass legislation to ease the burden of the working and middle class?

    Legislation that dealt with the banking system and their unfair charges,legislation that sought to put tighter controls on insurance companies,legislation that will rein in some of the unscrupulous lawyers? when last?

    Right now unless the people rise up and publicly protest en masse – owen and his bunch don’t care a jot about what we say as long as their bank accounts in miami (right owen) and in the caymans (right farley) are o.k.

  149. K23B7

    One way to stop all this piggys business would be laws that require politicians to declare their net worth when elected and then every year even up to five or ten years after leaving their position.

    We must do something to stop the rape.

  150. Out Dey In Bim

    K23B7

    How do we stop the rape of this country?

    That’s what I’ve asking bajans throughout these discussions,are we going to limit this to talk on this site or do we have the courage of our conviction.

    If we don’t believe in something we will fall for anything.

    And then Ali Baba oops sorry owen and his bunch can do their stuff safe in the knowledge that we will only talk.

    It is not enough just to vote them out,we must send a ‘STRONG MESSAGE’.

  151. Jupiter

    Adrian

    where are you in all of this?

  152. Jupiter says:
    January 6th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
    Adrian

    where are you in all of this?
    ————————————————————–
    I have not gotten pass this :

    What happened? Here is the description from the person who nominated Owen Arthur and won the US$1000 cash prize…

    This is an opinion that i cannot substantiate, And then to read what i believe to be the Doppleganger of a BLP operative “Trevor Howard” who provides names, dates, land location, name and size, I became further confident in my initial decision. What it proves as some of you highlighted is that the absense of a FOI act, couple with Barbados strict libel laws give those with the keys to government the access to documents to effect control the debate with the release of information that would as a result of our secretcy act and our self impose guardians of the truth attitude not be readily known or available.
    ….Plus someone in another forum made known an interesting point. http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=6151&view=findpost&p=61301

    Do we know if Mr. Babb made any such request of Mr. Neblett and company????

    My overriding opinion still stands. Our system of government stinks to high heaven, and that it is but childs play and partisan adults that seek to suggest that it only the current government does.

    The functions of our government can be correctly liken unto what pertains in the proverbial Banana Republic.

  153. John

    Adrian

    I followed your link and suddenly realised that no one has congratulated Owen on his prestigious award.

    Yep, I agree with you. This country is a total mess.

  154. bajemonkey

    Wunna hear bout Sandy Lane Falls. I smell a RATTTT!!!!!!!!! Rommel Marshall name call. Whey he get dah money from doh? Peter Harris name call too!!!. I wonder if dis is annuda Trough? But Lord dey disgusting doh! Dey say de Minister of Tourism want to build Condos too. De Dawg getting do. you believe all a dat doh. I ain know.

  155. Out Dey In Bim

    BajeBoy

    Yet when a caller on Monday’s Down To Brasstacks spoke about more investigative journalism in B’dos,Dennis Johnson ‘rough up’ the caller real bad.

    You think we going to hear anything about this outside of the B’dos Free Press.”

  156. politics of inclusion, yeah right, only political pigs are included when big money deals are included. e.g. poor man has acre of land, some big company wants to buy it, he is unaware, political bigwig knows of it , bigwig buys it for nothing, sells to big company for 100 times he bought it for. looks as though these particular ‘middle men’ are the ones making all the dough. poor man will always remain poor. wake up and smell the coffee.

  157. The Major

    I enjoyed reading the unsubstantiated non evidential statements about the PM and I have to say every development deal he has allowed has benefited our little island which is a tourism economy as sugar is dead thank to the LOME convention
    I do not personally feel that the PM has financially benefited from these transactions but I am sure he will benefit indirectly when he leaves office, much like the president of the united states writing a book upon leaving office and writing a book which the special interest groups which he assisted and offer guidance whilst he was in office purchase the books by the millions, and if Barbados is better for it all I will buy one of the PM’s books.
    I will leave you with one irrefutable fact about Owen’s leadership.
    Look at the size of the telephone yellow pages in 1995 and compare them now, this increase, is the growth of the economy much like the traffic gridlock which wee face today it is a free economy working at its best because our citizens are still buying cars despite a 125% import duty.
    Try this, walk alone unarmed from St Lawrence to Bridgetown starting at 9 pm by the time you get there it will be midnight, but you got there if you tried this in another developing country chances are you would have been mugged or shot.
    Stop being a part of the problem and look at what you have and be thankful for it.
    Because ,if Owen is voted out you will lose what you enjoy now.
    I for one will not fix what works!!!!!

  158. BFP Robert Not Signed In

    Hello Major

    We’re so happy that you don’t “feel” that the PM benefited from any transaction he has been a part of during his public service. I’m sure you are including his family and associates as well in your “feelings”.

    The rest of us do not know the PM sufficiently well enough to “feel” the same way – which is why we are demanding integrity and transparency legislation.

    The PM, however, says that he doesn’t “feel” such legislation is necessary because all Barbados elected and appointed officials are honest.

    But we are happy that you “feel” the PM is honest.

    It makes us “feel” so much better knowing that we can just shut down this site now and that everything is going to be ok because you “feel” it!

    Thanks!

  159. The Colonel

    What a measurement of prosperity. The size of the telephone directory. I must give that one to the guys at Cave Hill. Our telephone directories for the past five years should be on the reading list!

    One thing though: Did the PM benefit from purchasing land at a concessionary price at West Terrace to build his house overlooking the West Coast on?

  160. ?

    To The Major

    Where are you living?

    It is time you wake up and smell the coffee.

  161. collector

    the part from Major that interest me is …
    “”””I do not personally feel that the PM has financially benefited from these transactions but I am sure he will benefit indirectly when he leaves office”””””
    hmmmmmmm…..

  162. Sharon

    Hello Major

    I note with interest your comments which I fully support. You can be sure that Barbadians are fair minded and very intelligent, and I assure you that no attempt to malign the character of people will work.
    Barbados Free Press is asking us to disbelieve all the good things that we see going on in this country, simply because it wishes to satisfy the objectives of a group of persons who would like to gain the reins of government to continue what they did to this country during that 8 year period 1986 – 94 which saw Barbadians unable to pay their mortgages or send to school their children. The DLP Government of that day even thought it appropriate to cut the salaries of people and went about doing it in the most vicious manner. As a consequence many Barbadians lost their houses. The Barbados Free Press must know that we the women of this country suffered much during that time and will not forget, no matter what the DLP Propaganda Website under the Pseudonym of Barbados Free Press is seeking to perpetrate.
    The Barbados Free Press must ask the new found Leader of the Opposition who all of a sudden speaks about integrity legislation to tells us what became of the money from the sale of the 13 plantations which were purchased by Clico which he approved during the time he was Minister of Finance in 1994.
    And now that he is on his integrity legislation crusade could he say whether Irene Sandiford Garner has paid back the money to the Credit Union, and more importantly can he ask Austin Husbands to explain why he left Barclays Bank. I think that an honest reply would make interesting reading.
    The Barbados Free Press must know that this country is a religious country and that people will continue to make fair and honest decisions.
    I know that the BFP will be stunned when the results of the next elections are determined and the people have spoken.
    Three good terms deserve a fourth and we the women of this country will do our part.

    ***********************

    Comment by Cliverton…

    Hi Sharon

    Those who have been reading Barbados Free Press for more than a few days know that we have as little faith in Thompson’s speaking of Integrity Legislation as we have in Owen Arthur. We have characterized both parties as Piggies at The Trough and continue to press both parties to implement Transparency, Integrity and Accountability laws. Even a brief review of our articles will show this. Arthur and the BLP take more flak from us because they have been in power for 12 years and have such a majority that they could introduce Integrity Legislation tomorrow if they so choose.

    …But they don’t.

    You have to go back 13 years to find integrity issues with Thompson and the DLP because that is when they were last at the trough. We agree, they behaved unethically and we haven’t seen anything since that makes us believe they have changed. If the DLP formed the government tomorrow, it would be same old same old unless integrity legislation was already in place. (and even then…!)

    Yours is nothing more than a partisan attempt to shoot the messenger who is criticizing your chosen party and leadership – rather than addressing the individual cases of unethical behaviour by elected and appointed officials of all stripes.

    Your people have run amok for the past 12 years. DLP before that.

    Now, while we have your attention, may we have your opinion on one single integrity issue please?

    Is it ethical that Gline Clarke, a Minister of Government, lives on land that was expropriated by government?

    Do you think it is ethical that a powerful Government Minister like Mr. Clarke does not have to declare his assets or explain how it is that, as a Member of the Cabinet that approves the expropriation of privately-owned lands, he comes to live upon a choice building lot that was forceably taken from an owner – using the full power of the Government?

    Looking forward to your direct answer to this one issue.

    Thanks!

    Cliverton

    *************************

    NEW COMMENT BY CLIVERTON

    Ha ha ha ha

    The post by “Rufus” showing support for “Sharon” is actually posted by “Sharon” of the same IP address

    Sharon = Rufus = Kelly

    Amazing how those accusing us of hiding an agenda stoop to posting false support for their own posts!

    ha ha ha ha

  163. BFP

    Comment by Cliverton…

    Hi Sharon

    Those who have been reading Barbados Free Press for more than a few days know that we have as little faith in Thompson’s speaking of Integrity Legislation as we have in Owen Arthur. We have characterized both parties as Piggies at The Trough and continue to press both parties to implement Transparency, Integrity and Accountability laws. Even a brief review of our articles will show this. Arthur and the BLP take more flak from us because they have been in power for 12 years and have such a majority that they could introduce Integrity Legislation tomorrow if they so choose.

    …But they don’t.

    You have to go back 13 years to find integrity issues with Thompson and the DLP because that is when they were last at the trough. We agree, they behaved unethically and we haven’t seen anything since that makes us believe they have changed. If the DLP formed the government tomorrow, it would be same old same old unless integrity legislation was already in place. (and even then…!)

    Yours is nothing more than a partisan attempt to shoot the messenger who is criticizing your chosen party and leadership – rather than addressing the individual cases of unethical behaviour by elected and appointed officials of all stripes.

    Your people have run amok for the past 12 years. DLP before that.

    Now, while we have your attention, may we have your opinion on one single integrity issue please?

    Is it ethical that Gline Clarke, a Minister of Government, lives on land that was expropriated by government?

    Do you think it is ethical that a powerful Government Minister like Mr. Clarke does not have to declare his assets or explain how it is that, as a Member of the Cabinet that approves the expropriation of privately-owned lands, he comes to live upon a choice building lot that was forceably taken from an owner – using the full power of the Government?

    Looking forward to your direct answer to this one issue.

    Thanks!

    Cliverton

  164. Rufus

    Sharon

    While I agree with your comments, you seem to be forgetting that the Leader of the Opposition has made it very clear that only those who are with him will benefit from the fatted calf should be gain the Government.

    Is that what integrity legislation will be used for, as is being proposed by the Leader of the Opposition?.

    But I know that if those around him have anything to do with it, he will have to buy a whole herd from Texas.

    ***************************

    COMMENT BY CLIVERTON

    Ha ha ha ha

    This post by “Rufus” showing support for “Sharon” is actually posted by “Sharon” of the same IP address

    Sharon = Rufus = Kelly

    Amazing how those accusing us of hiding an agenda stoop to posting false support for their own posts!

    ha ha ha ha

  165. Jupiter

    I prefer to take a chance on someone (ie David Thompson) who has openly stated that he will implement integrity legislation,rather than owen arthur who stated (with a wide grin on his face) that there are no dishonest politicians in Barbados and therefore no need for integrity legislation.

    No administration whether Dlp or BLP has been as dishonest as Owen and his team.

    So we can tell when as above a BLP operative has been sent on this site to put out their propaganda.

    If they want to convince the populace of how squeaky clean and honest Owen is then they must first implement integrity legislation and make it retroactive.

    I refuse to cast aspersions on David Thompson and his team most of whom are new candidates – who should not be condemned before they are given a chance.

  166. Rufus

    Hi Jupiter

    Firstly, let me apoligise for obviously touching your achilles heel.
    Secondly, I don’t want to accuse you of being a David Thompson DLP operative. The readers have already come to that conclusion.
    Any by the way Minister Glyne Clarke lives on land that had belong to his father – in the parish of St George.
    But truth is never important in these matters, it is all about lies and propaganda. Is that not so Jupiter??

    *********************************

    COMMENT BY CLIVERTON

    Ha ha ha ha

    The post by “Rufus” showing support for “Sharon” is actually posted by “Sharon” of the same IP address

    Sharon = Rufus = Kelly

    Amazing how those accusing us of hiding an agenda stoop to posting false support for their own posts!

    ha ha ha ha

  167. BFP

    COMMENT BY CLIVERTON

    Ha ha ha ha

    The post by “Rufus” showing support for “Sharon” is actually posted by “Sharon” of the same IP address

    Amazing how those accusing us of hiding an agenda stoop to posting false support for their own posts!

    ha ha ha ha

    Clive

  168. am

    okay rufus now you cleared that up lets get started on gems, jaws, pm land at west terrace, silver sands toilet, ackee tree, cbc, udc, wc cruiseships, greenland, warrens barracks, qeh,bostic $3 mil,morality in government, emmerton sewage plant, cost of living, land sales to foreigners, private beaches, gated communities, immigration,integrity laws, cost overruns,etc……

  169. anon

    Hi BFP
    Explain your policy on disclosing IP addresses.
    Might make folk wary of posting controversial opinions.

    **********************

    Comment By Marcus

    Good Point Anon!

    We had no policy, so I’ve just stepped in and made one.

    We will not be disclosing IP addresses ever again, and I have just removed the IP references by Cliverton.

    When we make mistakes, we try and correct them and I think we got to this within a few minutes.

    Thanks so much for contributing to the BFP community.

  170. Jupiter

    Cliverton

    I was going to suggest that the 2 – sharon and Rufus – are one and the same,now you have confirmed it for me.

    Actually reading it – Royalrumble came to mind,maybe he has something to do with it.

    I hope you realise BFP how agitated you are making the BLPites.

  171. Jupiter

    As I think further on the work of these BLP operatives on this site I considered the following:

    First they sent anonymous out of the mission in England to suggest that the gov’t knew who were posting and they were going to shut the site down in a week.

    Then 2 ministers came on the site telling us they wanted to answer our questions – that is – until we started to ask the hard questions – suddenly the answers dried up.

    Then they started to hack the sites,then to try and lure the BFP adminstrators into identifying themselves – in an attempt to create ‘bare’ chaos.

    Not succeeding with the above they then resorted to posting nasty,vulgar comments about their own party members and going so far as to use the name of regular contributors.

    The aim?- to try and discredit BFP.

    Now they have resorted to posting support for the government under one name(let’s say Kelly) the same person then posts support for the first name – that is Kelly – now using another name – say sharon.
    What is even hilarious ,sharon although he/she is Kelly starts to write about ‘we the women of Barbados’.
    Then Rufus comes – who is the same as sharon and kelly – and supports the gov’t on another post on the site – thus making it seem as though there is massive support.

    You can easily recognise them.

    So that’s why BFP has to be very vigilant that they don’t try to hijack this site – by howling loud about disrespect for the prime minister or lynette eastmond – or saying that BFP is pro DLP- so that BFP now tries extra hard to show that – this is not so.

    That’s why when Adrian said:Dennis Johnson said he found BFP to be partisan to the Dlp – I started hearing echoes of RoyalRumble.

  172. ?

    So wait Rufus, Min. Gline Clarke lives in St. George and his car sleeps at Lower Burney in St. Michael?

  173. hard ears

    Rufus or whoever he be better go an sleep. You sure he ent the man who car sleep in St. Michael when he live in St. George? He mussee catch the bypass pun mornings to St. Michael to pickup he car.
    You all does crack me up.

  174. Sharon

    Rufus boy, it seems like the Barbados Free Press slips are showing more and more these days. It appears that once anyone on this Blog says anything that is supportive of the government or seeks to criticise any obvious bias that emanates from the BFP, you are the target of the BFP’s venom. Rufus it certainly will not stop me from commenting fairly on matters raised via this or any other medium in this country.
    We the women of this country have been observing how this so-called free press has been seeking to vilify persons from all walks of public life, under the guise of what BFP considers “free editorial commentary”. For them a matter does not have to be right, accurate, truthful, or even fall within the bounds of ethics or decency.
    Anyone or anything is fair game for the BFP.
    I have noted that the BFP sought to lambaste the Nation News Paper, the Advocate and even the various talk show hosts who seek only to be professional, as is required by the ethics of good journalism.
    Yet the BFP will not tell you that it is a pseudonym or operative with its own hidden agenda.
    I have said on this blog before that we the women of this country are not fools, we understand only too well what is playing out before our very eyes. When the time come, in our numbers, we will do the right and just thing and the BFP will understand that we will not accept any attempt to hoodwink our people under whatever guise.

    Rufus I look forward to your continued contributions to this Blog or any other media.

    Any by the way what is more than laughable is that the ” BFP/DLP Operatives” are saying that we are one and the same person.
    What will they think of next?.

  175. Velzo

    I wanted to ask Sharon a few questions:

    Who owned the plantations that Clico bought? You think Clico got them for free? That is where the money is. Go digging and you might find it is a BLP supporter of note! I could ask where is the money that COW bought Kendal plantation under the BLP with?

    Or I could ask why did the BLP government acquire Apes Hill for low income housing and then give it back to COW after thr residential approval was given so he could build luxury houses?

    Did Mascoll give back the shopkeeper the chicken he admitted he shoplifted? Did he pay back his credit union loan (made in breach of the Credit Union Rules and the Cooperatives Act) that Owen Arthur talked about in the House two years ago? Did Mascoll knock down the illegal extension to his house in St. Peter that Owen Arthur said the Town Planner drew to his attention?

    Sharon, did Mascoll eventually support his ailing mother after rommel Marshall slammed him in the House for not doing so?

    Sharon, did Rudy Grant ever pay back his uncle the money he stole from him?

    There’s more…. do you want to hear it?

  176. Jupiter

    Look what the BLP is reduced to.

  177. RRRicky

    Look what their own blog has been reduced to!

    Rufas, Sharon or whoever u are: when anybody going to answer the Gline Clarke question? How much money he got into that house where his mercedes parks? Don’t you think it is unethical for a minister of government to live on land that his government expropriated for “public housing”?

    I think it is the worst rot in the system. Like everybody says, the fish always rots from the head.

  178. Out Dey In Bim

    That $1,000.00 prize money for the Piggy at The Trough Award to Owen Arthur would help with the addition of this new baby on the way,don’t you think?

    But then again he probably does not need it ,what with the millions he has put away for rainy days.

  179. Jerome Hinds

    Out Dey In Bim, says,

    ” But then again he probably does not need it ,what with the millions he has put away for rainy days.”

    ———————————————
    Now that the evidence is ” showing ” may be it should for ” baby days ” rather than ” rainy days ”

    The PM’s F & B policy……wukking….!!!

  180. Jerome Hinds

    Readers may recall soon after PM Arthur August 2006 wedding -Richard Hoad – in one of his weekly Lowdown columns, reported that he asked Arthur, ” How was married life going ? ”

    Hoad reported that Arthur replied
    ” Everything good on the WHOLE…! ”

    Hoad stated further that Arthur cautioned him to get the spelling right…!

    A few months later the…… swelling….OOPS…..spelling looks different….!

  181. RRRicky

    Jerome, in my opinion your last comment crosses the line into places that we’ve been asked not to go as it lowers the conversation and tone of this community.

    That’s my vote.

  182. Jerome Hinds

    RRRicky…..it appears that you do not appreciate the use of standard English…..whatever interpretation you affixed to it, is you choice….!!!

    I could have used the words attributed to the PM in the Weekend Nation of 2007-03-02, where he said, ” when you see my wife you’ll realise that there may be a slight change in her physical contour ”

    Simply put, a slight swelling……!!!

  183. Jerome Hinds

    Well after Thompy landed that $ 750,000.00 cheque in Owen’s head on Friday night in Parliament, he was seen at the beach the following day. Read how his Power Puff Girls ” treated ” him:

    Subject: Power Puff Girls Compassion at it’s best!
    —————————————————————

    Owen Arthur was sitting on the beach at Six Men’s

    looking sadly.

    Three of his most influential women in the

    Cabinet were walking past and felt sorry

    for him.

    Liz Thompson asked: “Have you ever had a hug?”

    Owen said: “No,” so she gave him a hug and

    walked on.

    Billie Miller asked: “Have you ever had a kiss?”

    Owen said: “No,” so she gave him a kiss and

    walked on.

    Mia Mottley walked over to him and whispered in

    his ear:

    Have you ever been f****d?”

    Owen looked up in amazement and said “No”

    She smiled and said: “You will be when the VOTES

    comes in next General Election….!”

  184. Pingback: New BFP Series Coming Next Week - Money Laundering In Barbados « Barbados Free Press

  185. Out Dey In Bim

    BFP

    A lot of unwanted adverts are slipping through.

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  187. Watchman

    I am throwing a spanner in the “works”. Where is George Payne in all of this? Recently there was a letter in the news media highlighting his “integrity”.
    Was he the Minister of Tourism then … during this re-zoning business or did he have responsibility for the Barbados Water Authority? Wasn’t he the lawyer for Barrack Construction which is now to get millions from the government….. his government? How much of these millions will be coming to him? Wasn’t Dowell’s Chambers the lawyers for the BWA …. and Dale Marshall “Commander -in-Chief”/legal rep. for the BWA at the time? Wasn’t this a conflict of interest with the law firm BELONGING to the, then, minister, “George W.”, being the legal rep. for BWA? To whom/where did the payments for representing BWA go, if not back to Dowell’s Chambers, the firm belonging to “George W.”, Dale Marshall et al? Is/Was this corruption or what?
    Has the “environmental madness” accusation he made at the time against his own people over the Greenland issue proven to be true?

  188. Pingback: Another Stunning Secret Tape Recording In The Barbados Kingsland Estates Fraud Case! Richard Cox, Sir Henry Forde, Clyde Turney… OH MY!!!!!! « Barbados Free Press

  189. Barbados Tourism Authority Employee

    In 2007 Jupiter commented “I refuse to cast aspersions on David Thompson and his team most of whom are new candidates – who should not be condemned before they are given a chance.”

    Well, Jupiter? We gave them a chance. Where is the integrity legislation now five years later?

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