One Day, Two Headlines: 1/ British PM “Immigrants Have Duty To Integrate”, 2/ British Public Swimming Pool “Muslims Only”

What Was That About Going Somewhere In A Handbasket?

PM Tony Blair – “Immigrants Have A Duty To Integrate”

“Muslim Only” Pool Outrage

Again We Ask The Question…

As we asked in a previous BFP article about certain hotels around the world being restricted to “Muslims Only”…

What do you think, folks? Should any of the hotels on Barbados set aside floors for Muslims only? (article here)

… should hotels on (Barbados) be able to turn away people on the basis of their religion if, say a non-Muslim wanted a room and the only one available was on a “Muslim” reserved floor?

The time to discuss what is permissible in our society is always now.

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36 Comments

Filed under Barbados, Culture & Race Issues, Religion

36 responses to “One Day, Two Headlines: 1/ British PM “Immigrants Have Duty To Integrate”, 2/ British Public Swimming Pool “Muslims Only”

  1. Yam P][e

    well i ain de one tuh talk too much pon dese religious matters, but i wud say this lil bit- that if the ppl want them own time, it wud be more reasonable to have them sessions out side of de regular hours, u kno, so it wudnt restrict the other ppl.

    and besides that, the reasoning that the nearby mosque gave was pretty reasonable too- seeing that everything including the law takes into consideration other religions like jehova witnesses and ting- muslims duz get unfair, and dat is how i c it.

    the ‘Croydon Council’ shud be commended for their transparency of operations and the step to making the muslims welcomed.

  2. iandi

    Yam P][e,

    who tell u say so? now u will endure the wrath of bfp and those right wingers and conservatives and evangelicals etc on here!!! the sun is a tabloid owned by rupert murdoch’s news corporation. owns fox also and lots of other right wing media around. most of their output is propaganda, half truths, lies, sensationalist reporting aimed at generating fear and justifying the bush administrations actions and the rantings and ravings of right wing conservatives. if the sun reports a story there is much more to what they are claiming. i am sure there is a lot more to this thing about the pool. my view is that if it is a public pool and it can be booked by individuals or groups, and a muslim organisation books it for themselves then its the same as if a school booked a session for themselves. if its a case where there are no provisions for groups or individuals to book the pool for their sole usage then its a different situation. i think each situation would have to be judged on merit and various issues would have to be taken into consideration.

  3. BFP

    So what is your answer on the question as to “How shall we all live?”

    Shall we as Bajans allow public swimming areas and hotels to refuse service to people because they are not of a certain religion?

    What is your answer, i and i?

    Yes…

    or No?

  4. Glicktuck

    iandi – would it be ok if Catholics insisted on “catholics only” swimming times, and Jews did the same and blacks wanted “blacks only” times and whites wanted “pinks only” swim times (ha ha they be pink not white!)

  5. iandi

    i am sure bfp has a problem with the way the question on the supposed referendum about barbados becoming a republic is framed. its framed to get a certain answer. bfp’s question is framed as if everything is black and white and to convey a certain impression. u have learnt well from murdoch!!!

    for one, i am not in favour or any type of discrimination so i don’t think we should go down that road. hotels, restaurants, pools etc should be open to all!

    if a hotel decides to reserve a floor or 2 during the world cup for the pakistani team then i see no problem with that. its called smart business. accommodating paying guests while they patronise your business.

    if a public pool can be booked by groups or individuals for certain periods for their exclusive use then thats very different from a public pool barring people on the basis or religion race etc.

    Glicktuck, the daily mail isnt much different to the sun when it comes to sensationalist right wing tabloid type reporting so i donnt attach much credence to their stories either.

  6. BFP

    i and i still avoids the question…

    Should hotels on Barbados be able to reserve entire floors or entire hotels for persons of a specific religion only?

    Should hotels be able to turn away people because of their religion as they do in some other countries?

    Don’t avoid and tap dance all around the question i and i!

    Yes we should allow this or no, we should not?

    What should Barbados do about “muslims only” hotels?

  7. iandi

    i was very clear in my answer:

    “for one, i am not in favour or any type of discrimination so i don’t think we should go down that road. hotels, restaurants, pools etc should be open to all!”

    in other words we should not bar anyone frm any public place on the basis of religion, race etc.

    however, i have no problem with a hotel reserving a floor for muslims. if there is a market for catering to a specific group requring a floor to enable them to practise some religious belief then i dont see any problem. as long as that religious belief doesnt break the law.

  8. BFP

    So I take it, i and i – that if a hotel floor is reserved for muslims only, and the rest of the hotel is full – that it is ok to turn away a non-muslim from an empty room on the “muslim” floor?

    Happens all the time in many countries.

    Ok in Barbados as far as you’re concerned, eh?

  9. BFP

    Maybe we can reserve some floors “for Christians only” and turn away non-Christians when the rest of the hotel is full.

    Ok by you, i and i?

  10. JR

    BFP clearly has a problem with Muslims and it is getting old and tired. They sound like a stupid, ignorant boys getting on a soapbox and speaking whatever comes to their mind regardless of how non-intelligent it may seem.

    How can you compare a PUBLIC swimming pool owned by the city council to a privately-owned hotel, idiots? A swimming pool owned by the city council is a public resource, and all city councils make moves to integrate all members of society in the sharing of public resources. If the Muslims hitherto could not use the swimming pool because of religious strictures, should they not have been granted that right to access as a move to include that segment of society in the enjoyment of public resources? Are privately-owned institutions adopting this ‘Muslim only’ practice as well? Are all swimming pools in town on this day closed to ‘Muslims only’ too? NO! So on what grounds are you trying to incite hysteria and righteous indignation?

    The world is not homogenous, twits, and the same way that people give way to Muslims they give way to Christians – and not so long ago they had to give way to blacks. Back in the height of the civil rights movements the whites also asked “why the hell should blacks be able to sit in the front of the bus?! What next? Will we see blacks in government? Blacks in business? Blacks on my television?”

    For the love of Christ, GROW UP! You post some of the most stupid things on this site and show that you have very little common sense.

    You can say what you wish, accuse me of being a BLP ‘hack’, or a Muslim, or throw some other stupid accusation like you do for all who criticize you – I don’t give a damn. I don’t plan to check this blog again.

  11. morph

    politico anonymouse has just morphed to i and i

    still as dumb and vitriolic as ever

    more interested in attacking BFP than the ideas

    keep saying they ain’t coming back on but can’t stay off

    how much they paying you?

  12. Hants

    Muslims only? no problem.
    Whites only? ?????

  13. Glicktuck

    Jr

    Privately owned institutions in Britain, Europe and Asia ARE adopting a “muslims only” policy. It is actually quite common in the rest of the world. You should do some research before you get too angry at BFP.

    BFP are initiating the debate prematurely for Barbados, but in that we Bajans have an opportunity to address this issue before it is thrust upon us.

    In Saudi Arabia, “muslim only” hotels and restaurants are so common that one is often hard-pressed to find a place to stay. The same goes for some highways that have large signs saying “Muslims Only”.

    In Britain, some public housing projects built with public money are “muslims only”. In Canada, at least two colleges have “muslims only” washrooms built with footwashing basins to accomodate their relgious demands/needs (whatever you want to call them)

    In the USA, muslims are now demanding special prayer rooms at each airport.

    In Australia, muslims demanded and for a time (until the Aussies wouldn’t take it any more) had “muslim only” beaches.

    In two other countries where I have worked, Singapore and Thailand, hotels have “muslim only” floors and have adopted a policy of employing only muslims throughout the entire hotel so any employee can venture onto the “muslim only” floors. Non-muslims are not employed by these hotels and there is a religious test for hiring.

    Do some research or travel a bit before you yell at BFP JR.

  14. Golden Claw

    Are there ‘Christian only’ facilities in any of the muslim countries that expatriated muslims come from? They should stay the hell in their own countries if they are so scornful of rubbing shoulders with Christians in the Western world. The world is supposed to accomodate them and I cant get a rum and pork cutter in Saudi Arabia? Kismuhras! Anyway I have come up with a plan to rid the middle east of all their problems. Liquor. Lots of liquor. Spend 1/10th of what you would spend on bombs and diplomacy on flooding that festering sandbox over there with good old booze, and most problems would evaporate in a sweet hazy sigh. Start with one hundred shipping containers of Mount Gay Extra Old cracked open in downtown Baghdad and watch the violence fizzle. Peter Marshall, you feeling me bro? Rum for oil? And then, for phase two of operation ‘Get Raghead’, we send in the roast pork. By the way JR, you are a big poo poo head. And Glicktuck, most ‘blacks’ I know are more like brownish than black, so lets not split nappy hairs about skin colour, mmmkay?

  15. iandi

    morph, if u had a modicum of common sense u would realise instantly that i am not “anonymous”. anyone would realise frm my posts that i am no fan of the blp, of owen and his cronies. not a fan of the dlp either bc they will do the same wickedness when they come into power.

    my problem is not with any legitimate criticism but with unwarranted and sensationalist attacks on muslims which bfp and their right wing/evangelical/conservative friends are so fond of engaging in.

    i dont see bfp talking about the discrimination and islamaphobia that muslims are subjected to on a daily basis in the west.

  16. iandi

    congrats golden claw. u sound so enlightened and intelligent. u speak of a festering sand box. what would u call barbados? festering garbage and mosquito ridden? u should start with european colonialism and now american foreign policy as the basis of your understanding of why the mid east is in such a mess. but then from your post you demonstrate that you dont have the minimum intellectual capacity to attempt such an exercise. go back to your rum.

    i don’t hear anyone complaining of the ghettoes that west indians and other communities create when they migrate. the live in isolated communities, fence themselves off and expect to live in nyc and london just as they did in the caribbean etc. they make demands and expect americans to accept their way of life.

    its not about pointing fingers, accusing, labelling, etc. its about sitting down and talking, dialogue and mutual respect. but that is too difficult and takes to long and isnt attractive and doesnt sell news. it also doesnt aid the military industrial complex and doesnt help bush and his cronies in their quest for oil wealth. its much easier to generate fear and speak of “them” and the “other”. so the extremists on both sides revel and play off one another and draw all of us into their sick game.

    there are lots of muslims, jews and christians out there talking to one another, trying to understand each other and promoting tolerance and respect. but that wont make it to the news.

  17. BFP

    Who is i an i?

    We have one of two things going on here, folks…

    1/ We have two people using ‘iandi’ – one in New York, and one in England, running through a server in the Netherlands (just like anonymous used to do).

    or…

    2/ We have one person using ‘iandi” who is based in New York, England or the Netherlands and is using half-baked proxies to appear to come from different places.

    No matter to us, but we just thought we would throw some information into the mix.

    Now…. where’s my beer and lunch, darlin’ ?

    🙂

  18. BFP

    Interesting that morph picked up on the possible anonymous-turned-into-iandi connection before we looked at the ip info.

    Good work, morph!

  19. Yam P][e

    iandi (this one- December 10th, 2006 at 7:17 am )

    “who tell u say so? now u will endure the wrath of bfp and those right wingers and conservatives and evangelicals etc on here!!! ”

    1) what “so” (first line) were u referring to?

    2) nobody from BFP aint holler at me yet. (wait longer?)

    3) u made the same point I did. Guess u were just flabbergasted that u knew something abt the paper.

    Regards.

  20. Golden Claw

    Hello iandi, oh enlightened intelligentsia of the Blogosphere. First of all my post was meant to be ironic. Stop taking yourself and this blog so seriously. Your ‘moniker’ shows that you are at least halfway up your own arse as does your judgment of someone’s intellect based on a few spontaneous lines of prose. Here’s some news for you. The Shi’a and the Sunnis were at each others throats long before the scaremongering media were around for people like you to blame. The middle East problems are not a construct of the Western world, much as you would want it to be. It goes way back to the Prophet Muhammed, his brother in law, and some other ancient tribal crap which Muslims cant let go of and move on towards transforming into a peaceful religion. Saddam seemed to have an iron grip on it before Dumbass put his hand into the snakepit and removed the snake handler. Result, more chaos because off a 1500 year old family row. Real smart. Meanwhile, Iran (Shi’a) watches and waits to seize power in Iraq, build more nukes, an bully the world into religious submission. At least I know I am not the dumbest on the planet. And iandi I will go back to my rum, with pleasure, and you can go back to **********

    ************ edited for vulgarity by Auntie Moses *******

  21. Out dey in Bim

    CLAW and iandi

    At the risk of being misunderstood,may I suggest for the sake if only of the younger ones who log into this site that we temper our language,and secondly and also importantly that we not encourage the use of text english which perpetuates bad spelling,grammar etc and is insulting to those of us who don’t speak in that jargon.

    It’s like speaking patois to an englishman.

  22. Hants

    Out D I B what’s up with the “censorship”.

    Why don’t you start a blog called Barbados Free Press Oxford Compliant.

    If you don,t like the jargon go to the BLP site.

    You are not compelled to be here.

    Freedom of speech rules, jargon and all as long as BFP management approves.

    Comment please BFP.

  23. Out dey in Bim

    Knew my point would have been missed.

    It seems standards are not something you aim for in this anything goes world.

    You cuss,use abbrievated letters that not all understand or even if they understand – they don’t appreciate.Sorry,but I thought the central purpose of this site was to communicate,and that doesn’t happen if you transmit and the receiver doesnot recieve.

    If by censorship you mean supress any form of obscenity,then yes I am all for it and so is BFP if I judge them by their comments.Since nothing I said however suggested that I wanted to suppress the views of iandi and claw – what’s the big deal?

    There is,(at least he/she says so),a 16 year old who posts on this site and perhaps others who are younger should people like you and I be setting the right example,or should we ‘let it all hang out?’

  24. Out Dey in Bim what part of Claws contribution are you having difficulty understanding?

  25. Golden Claw

    Apologies to ODB and any others that took offence to the language of my post. If a 16 year old is on this blog, and the WWW in general, chances are a million to one that they have been exposed to far worse than my slightly off colour comments and satire. And yes a little annoyance did surface at i&i’s plea for tolerance towards perhaps the most intolerant group of people existing on the planet right now. For a little perspective, look into what’s happening in Darfur while ‘tolerant’ Christians and Muslims stand by and watch. Is nobody going to get dread with these sickheads out there? I guess Muslim Pool Day is more important. As far as dialogue and mutual respect goes, I dont see much coming from Islam. I don’t hear Islamic religious leaders calling for and end to the sectarian violence raging in different parts of the Muslim world. I see with my own eyes these people telling their followers, in their own propaganda films, that a Kaffir (infidel) in a Muslim land is theirs to take and kill, much like a cow or pig. I hear a Muslim leader in Australia insulting billions of Christian women, including mine ; ), by calling them ‘uncovered meat’ deserving of rape. Sorry, but these don’t sound like tolerant, reasonable people, and the moderate Muslims? Whither the moderate, the reasonable, the understanding, the tolerant, those willing to integrate into the culture of their chosen domicile outside of the East. You can hear a pin drop. And I’a your argument about West Indians in America & elsewhere not integrating is very questionable. Everyone knows that as soon as a Bajan immigrunt steps off at JFK he is already speaking more American that Gulianni. And dressed better too. Aye, Mate?

  26. Out dey in Bim

    CLAWS

    Thanks for your understanding remarks re the obscenities,and apologies appreciated..Like you I get pretty uptight by some of these western jihadists apologists.You hear them every day ranting and raving about the ‘Great Evil One’ George Bush,or about the atrocities committed against the palestinians or the Itraqis,but ne’er a word about christians being murdered in Indonesia,Saudia Arabia,Sudan, who in the case of the latter, are african brothers and sisters like many of them here in Bim.

    I agree with your comments wholeheartedly,and again appreciate your mature response to my earlier comments,as opposed to the approach taken by others.

  27. Golden Claw

    Hey Everybody!

    Looks like Iran just had a big Holocaust Party! Seems like the aim of it was to disprove the historical fact of Nazis murderingJews in wholesale, methodical death factories. AND, Even though it never happened, they say its time for another one. Wipe them off the map, them stinking Jews, they say. Oh and guess who was a celebrity guest at this big Islamic Fundamentalist Feté? DAVID DUKE!!! Founder of the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan and Professional Racist. Maybe they are getting ready to disprove centuries of African Slavery too.

  28. Jason

    Not to mention Arab & Persian Muslim slavery in the past and right now.

  29. ILLUMINATOR

    i don’t even know where to begin with you guys .
    I think religious extremism occurs in all religions and ends up bastardising the original intent of the religion .
    Islam is just too serious and rule based for me even though i believe people have the right to adhere to it if they want and despite all the hype about its treatment of women , many women voluntarily join it .
    Judaism or at least zionism is one of the most racist and classist religions around so you guys need to wake up .
    The US has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and is the only country to have used nuclear weapons on another (twice to boot ).
    Israel has nuclear weapons (thanks to the US )and if i were Iran i would want some too .
    The holocaust is the main reason for establishment of recent nation of Israel ( otherwise known as the stealing of the palestines’ land to ‘create’ Israel.)
    If the ‘holocaust’ is so certain , why are people (and legitimate researchers too ) being locked up for asking questions .If i were muslim arab at least palestinian ( because they are christian ones too that actually live in the middle east too, i have met some myself ) i would want to question the main event to have displaced my people from ‘their’ land too .
    Rupert Murdoch’s NewsCorp has the rights for the ICC world cup in case that wasn’t known . His and other main stream media are acheiving excellent results in creating massive divisions in religions ( christian , muslim and judaism especially ) and we are all doing very well in falling for it . Divide and rule does work . For all you know all those so called world leaders all probably meet secretly and have a good laugh at us over some good rum, coke ( not the bottled kind ) and big weed . Have you guys ever heard of the Bilderberg group , u should google it and see what comes up .
    There are many muslim , christian , jewish groups that have dialogue with one other but that never seems to hit the main stream media , only the divisive extremist intolerant ones. Now why is that .

  30. BFP

    Hello Illuminator

    As we have said before, when groups of rogue nuns start hijacking airliners full of families on their way to Disney Land, sliting the throats of the pretty young cabin crew and then smash the airliners into buildings murdering thousands – all while chanting “Hail Mary Full Of Grace”…

    … then you can call me about equivilency between Christianity and Islam.

  31. ILLUMINATOR

    I wanted to clear up my post where i what i wrote suggested that Judaism and Zionism are the same thing . They are actually quite different and there are quite a few orthodox jews that are against what the zionists in Israel are doing . To the point where they protest and have websites explaining the difference and i am talking about Rabbis here too not just the average jew who might like how an Arab muslim gal look .

    I admit though that on the surface Islam does seem like quite a harsh and strict religion and i dont particularly find it appealing at all but that doesn’t mean i am going to get on the band wagon and condemn them all. Most religions have had some pretty sordid and bloody pasts , Christianity included . I am not saying they haven’t done some pretty terrible things either but we all need to step back and analyse who really benefits from all the bad publicity about muslims being pushed .Who benefits from the ‘security’ measures and all the fear and distrust being generated .

  32. passin thru

    “bad publicity about muslims” ??????

    Illuminator, you have to take a few deep breaths, Ok?

    Muslims have “bad publicity” for three reasons…

    1/ People are murdered every friggin day world wide by Muslims who state that pleasing Allah is their motive. They say that they have a religious motive, that their religious beliefs compels them to murder to fulfill their duty to Allah.

    2/ More non-muslims than ever before are now paying attention to the muslim faith – reading their scripture and listening carefully to what the Koran and muslim religious leaders say.

    These non-muslims previously ignored a study of Islamic religious scripture and beliefs, but since 9/11 have become aware that the Muslim religion sanctions violence to spread the religion. Non-muslims are also aware of many other “troublesome” values that are at the heart of that religion.

    The recent debate in Pakistan about changing from Islamic law as revealed in the Koran regarding rape (need 4 male witnesses to rape or the victim is guilty of adultery) to a civilized law is just one illustration of the vast gulf between Islamic laws decreed by Mohamed/Koran and civilized behaviour in the 21st century.

    Women as “uncovered meat” being responsible for their own rapes because they don’t wear headcovering is another “troublesome” illustration of the “bad publicity” that muslims seem to be garnering – unfairly as far as Illuminator is concerned.

    3/ The vast majority of muslims (99.99999%) continue to remain silent about the violence being done in the name of allah.

    If Muslims want to talk about curtailing “bad publicity” then they should stop murdering and adhering to Islamic laws and values that come right out of the dark ages.

    The only trouble is… murder and other uncivilized behaviour is at the heart of Mohamed’s/Allah’s decrees in the Koran. The Koran is perfect – delivered right from Allah to Mohamed in the language that Allah speaks – so it cannot be changed or “interpreted” too far from it’s declared core commandments and values.

    That is the problem faced by modern “civilized” muslims today – the Koran itself is at odds with civilized and peaceful values and it cannot be changed.

  33. brian

    Why don’t the just name it “uncivilized fascists only” and leave it at that. **********

    ************

    Comment edited by Auntie Moses for hate speech and threats of violence against a certain religion. Sorry we didn’t notice it earlier, folks – but there are thousands of comments on this blog and this one slipped by us.

    Thanks to those who brought it to our attention.

  34. missinghome

    Brian – it is one thing to critically examine the foundations and scriptures of a religion, and to consider the impact of one society upon another.

    It is another to call a person a “filthy muslim”.

    I think you are into hate speech and not a critical discussion of religion. I expect that BFP will censor your comment when they see it.

    BFP – I think brian’s comment is hate speech. My opinion.

  35. Waht is next? A section of putlic aras for every relegion? It is the continued activities such as this that only make those of differnet beleiefs harder to live together.