Barbados Under Muslim Jihadist Terrorist Threat – Minister Of State Atherley

Well, to be fair, according to the newspaper articles, the Minister of State for Barbados never used the words “Muslim”, “Jihadist”, “Islamic” or any other real identifier when talking about the people who have killed thousands upon thousands in the name of Allah in the last few years.

Nope, according to the Minister, the threat is not even from “terrorists” – the threat is “terrorism” itself – which is merely a weapon for achieving a political, or in this case, a religious, goal.

Was The Minister Talking About Crazed Seventh Day Adventists?

Perhaps the Minister of State was talking about crazed Seventh Day Adventists who dress their children in explosives and nails and then send them to explode themselves at restaurants? Maybe the Minister suspects that suicidal Catholic Nuns were shouting “Hail Mary, Full of Grace…” as they slit the throats of the pretty stewardesses and then murdered planeloads of families on their way to see Grandma in California?

A Refusal To Name The Enemy – Empowers Only The Enemy

It is this refusal to identify the enemy – this pretense – that is most disturbing. Until we start to use the words Jihad, Islamic and Muslim to accurately describe the Jihadists as they describe themselves, and unless we attribute their violence to religious motivation as they describe their own motivations, then Islam will never feel pressure to reform itself as a religion.

So, yes, Minister, the Barbados Defense Force had better be on the lookout for those planeloads of vicious Pentecostal Choir Members who use violence to force people to join the choir…

From The Nation News…

It Could Happen Here

Barbados is not immune to existing threats like terrorism.

This warning has come from Minister of State in the Prime Minister’s Office, Joseph Atherley, while he addressed the Barbados Defence Force’s (BDF) 27th anniversary parade yesterday at St Ann’s Fort.

He said Barbados which was inextricably linked to a changing world, had to respond to many security challenges.

He said that the scourge of terrorism which was topical today, was one hindrance.

“As you are aware, Barbados has enjoyed, and continues to enjoy, peaceful and friendly relations with the wider international community. Additionally, the Caribbean is one of the most peaceful regions in the world. These attributes, however, neither shield nor protect us from the negative consequences of actions taken by those who are determined to cause death, destruction and destabilisation across the world,” he said.

Atherley drew reference to the most recent terrorist plot which was foiled by the British security services and said that act “clearly and unmistakably reinforces this reality. A reality which we dare not ignore”.

The minister added that it was therefore of utmost importance that the BDF and all other security agencies in Barbados be ready to respond not only to the aftermath of any events, but to take proactive and decisive action to counter, or better eliminate any threat to the peace, stability and security of Barbados.

Read the rest of the story here.

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40 Comments

Filed under Barbados, Crime & Law, Culture & Race Issues, Politics & Corruption

40 responses to “Barbados Under Muslim Jihadist Terrorist Threat – Minister Of State Atherley

  1. ha ha ha ha I laugh but this is serious stuff. We are in the mist of a religious war and the world is refusing to see it for what it is. Here in the U.S we have groups like ACLU whose daily existance is to scourer the country looking for signs of the Christian religion in the public space in order to file a law suite, while another religion is gaining ground, turning back the clocks of free speech in Europe and attempting it here (Bush recent use of the term Islamic facist drew reaction from US muslim leaders) with our blessing, I just don’t get the inconsistentcy with our liberal Anti christian intelligensia.

    Check out this book by Melanie Phillips “Londonistan” it is so true.

  2. John

    At first glance I figured he was looking for something to say which he figured might be appropriate to the setting in which he found himself and would make him look intelligent, aware of the issues and on the ball.

    This and some of his past utterances do not seem to come from any earnestly held beliefs or deep thinking. I honestly hope not.

    He really was only delivering an address at an anniversary parade of the BDF where he also touted the new $59.5 million Coast Guard base to be built at the flour mill.

    Maybe he needs to have a word with his speech writer, ….. or actually read his lines before he says them. Many words and phrasings he used like cutting edge, operational capacity, hub for maritime excellence ( a variation on “centre for excellence”) I have heard several times before from other politicos. Maybe they all use the same speech writer.

    If he keeps it up I will conclude he actually means what he says and start to really become worried.

    But I agree, this guy needs to be watched very closely.

    He is either the standard, run of the mill politician out of his depth or a very scary person in the making.

  3. Observer

    With all the booga,booga, booga in the air these days over the terrorist evil-doers wanting to blow us all from the sky. Here’s a few things to keep in mind.

    1) The US played a large part in encouraging Muslim fundamentalist terrorists in Afghanistan in order to force the left-leaning Afghan government to ask for Soviet help and so drag the Soviet Union into their own “Vietnam.” (Only in those days they were “freedom fighters,” not evil-doing terrorists),

    Remember the shocked horror with which we were told by Western news media how the horrible, mediaeval thinking Taliban used fundamentalist, jihad preaching textbooks in schools to indoctrinate the innocent young Afghan minds in jihad? These school text books were filled with images of guns, bombs, tanks etc and were also filled with the teachings of Muslim fundamentalistm and anti-foreigner propaganda clearly designed as brainwashing and indoctrinating tools to bring up another generation of terrorists.

    Where did the books come from? Would it surprise you to learn they were supplied to the Taliban gratis by the USA as reported by only one US newspaper the Washington Post, which then, understandably (because that’s how our corporately run media in the West operates), they let the matter drop with no further follow up. For more details see the article “The Jihad Schoolbook Scandal” widely available on the net. Here are a few snips from the article:

    Washington Post investigators report that, during the past twenty years, the US has spent millions of dollars producing fanatical schoolbooks, which were then distributed in Afghanistan.

    “The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then (i.e., since the violent destruction of the Afghan secular government in the early 1990s) as the Afghan school system’s core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books…” — Washington Post, 23 March 2002 (1)

    According to the Post, the U.S. is now “…wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism.”

    So the books made up the core curriculum in Afghan schools. And what were the unintended consequences? The Post reports that, according to unnamed officials, the schoolbooks “steeped a generation in (Islamist) violence.”

    How could this result have been unintended? Did they expect that having fundamentalist schoolbooks in the core curriculum would produce moderate Muslims?

    SNIP

    Indeed, considering the disastrous consequences, shouldn’t US officials and the media be questioning the very practice of violating the sovereignty of other countries by distributing millions of Islamic fundamentalist schoolbooks?

    Yet after a thorough Internet search we could find no evidence that any mainstream Western newspaper, with the exception of the Washington Post, or any TV station or government leader has questioned – let alone denounced – sending fundamentalist schoolbooks to Afghanistan.

    SNIP

    In the body of the article itself the Post asserts without offering any evidence that steeping “a generation in (Islamist) violence” was an “unintended consequence” of giving these kids violent Islamist schoolbooks.

    “Unintended consequence” is fast becoming the US Establishment’s favorite excuse for the many disasters of its foreign policy. “We didn’t know. We weren’t prepared. We used old maps. We didn’t see the train. We thought there were tanks in the refugee column. Who could have expected this to happen?” and on and on.

    But does the case of the Islamist textbooks seem like “unintended consequences?” Or, quite the contrary, doesn’t it show every indication of being “deliberate policy!”

    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/WarOnTerror/JihadBooks.asp

    Here’s an interesting interview with Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, in which he claimed the US intentionally funded and stirred up radical fundamentalists before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in order to draw the Soviets into a trap of sending troops to Afghanistan to prop up a friendly government. The hope, rightly so as it turned out, was that it would put the Soviets in the same type of quagmire the US found itself in when they went into Vietnam.

    Here’s a snip from the interview:

    Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?

    Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

    Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

    Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

    http://www.proxsa.org/resources/9-11/Brzezinski-980115-interview.htm

    2) Remember that the US military industrial complex needs enemies and threats to the nation to justify the huge US defense budget (now roughly equal or greater than the defense spending of the rest of the world compbined See:
    http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdi/jdi050504_1_n.shtml ).

    The Repulican President and World War II Commander in Chief of all Allied forces in Europe, Dwight Eisenhower, warned in a famous farewell speech that the military industrial complex could destroy democracy in the USA if not closely monitored and kept in check by the people. See his warning in the farewell speech to the Nation here:
    http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

    Without enemies there would be no need for all that hugely expensive war materiel like tanks, cruise missiles, jet fighters and bombers, billion dollar black budgets for “intelligence work” and billion dollar budgets to provide untendered “defense” related contracts to businesses with the right Washington connections.

    In a stroke of pure genius it appears they ensured that the tool they created and used to help bring about the defeat of the old threat of the Red Menace was handily turned around and now used as the new threat that could readily destroy the USA should there be any letdown of the guard. Consequently, any idea of a peace dividend which could be used to improve the lives of Americans by redirecting funds for armaments to rebuilding or improving public infrastructure like hospitals, schools, universities, sewer systems, roads, bridges etc. quicly went up smoke.

    3)There is no tool like the threat of random terror to keep an unruly public in line and to encourage the public to fall in line, stop asking embarrassing questions of the powers that be and to do as they are told.

    In 1993 the first terror attacks occurred on the WTC when a van laden with explosives was driven into the underground parking and exploded. What is not generally known about that episode was that the terrorist group had an FBI informant working inside the group who had requested that he be allowed to substitute a harmless substance to replace the explosives so that there could be no damage or injuries when someone attempted to set off the bomb. His superiors at the FBI, refused his request and allowed the bombing to go ahead, 6 people were killed and 1000 injured.

    Here’s a SNIP from an NYT article on the topic:

    Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast
    by Ralph Blumenthal
    New York Times
    October, 28 1993

    Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast.

    The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad A. Salem, should be used, the informer said.

    The account. which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours ot tape recordings Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks w!th law enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as in a far better position than previously known to foil the Feb. 26 bombing of New York City’s tallest towers. The explosion left six people dead more than 1000 injured and damages in excess of half a billion dollars. Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Crourt in that attack.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html

    We also know that Western (and supposedly democratic) governments and their military or intelligence service arms have used or at the very least proposed to use false flag terror or have actually encouraged terror attacks in the past in order to incite a naive and gullible public against the designated bad guys of the day.

    Here are a few examples:
    The Lavon Affair (named after the Israeli Secretary of Defense, Pinchas Lavon ) when Israeli agents in Egypt left bombs and evidence to incriminate Arabs in public places and in US and British consular offices in order for the resulting explosions to be blamed on Arab terrorists and to gain sympathy for Israel.

    http://www.mideastweb.org/lavon.htm

    Operation Northwoods,
    This refers to the plans drawn up by the Pentagon’s Chiefs of Staff in the 1960s to stage false flag terror attacks against US military assets in Guantanmo Bay, Cuba and against civilian targets and Cuban refugees fleeing to Florida from Cuba. The idea was to publicly blame Castro for these terrorist attacks against innocent Americans and Cubans and use this as an excuse to stage a military invasion of Cuba. As far as we can tell it was the Kennedy White House that put the kibosh on these plans and they were never implemented.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

    Operation Gladio
    In contrast to Operation Northwoods, Operation Gladio was implemented. Operation Gladio (Gladio = sword in Italian) was a code name used to refer to a series of bloody and murderous terrorist attacks by secret right wing and fascist underground groups in Europe acting with the cooperation of NATO and some Western European intelligence agencies. The attacks were blamed on radical leftists and communists in order to scare the public away from supporting left wing causes or voting for left wing politicans and to cause the public to turn to the state for protection. As one Gladio agent put it in his sworn testimony.

    ‘”You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/FLO502B.html
    http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/08/massacre-of-innocents.html

    So in all the hoopla surrounding the latest terrorist threat today, it’s good to keep in mind that there are many forces at work in the world and the ones that we automatically assume are the ones that always wear the white hats and are only acting from the purest motives might have a completely different agenda than the one they publicly proclaim.

    In fact, polls in the US show that an increasing number of people are questioning the story the 911 terror attack itself. According to one recent poll up to 36% of the USA believes they are not being told the truth by the government about the events of 911, and that the US government had some complicity in allowing the attacks to go ahead or enven in planning the attacks. Even the members of the Kean Commission formed to investigate and write a report on 911 (after much stonewalling and prevaricating by the Bush White House) recently came out and publicly said they thought they were being lied to by Pentagon witnesses about the events that day, although they put nothing of this in their official report.

    Just what is the Pentagon so anxious to hide? If it was just incompetence and bureaucratic bungling and ineptitude that allowed the 911 attacks to succeed in spite of the many warnings and alerts that were coming in from intelligence agencies around the world, it’s interesting that no one has been fired for it.

    See The Top 40 Reasons to doubt the official story on 911 at:
    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646 and cruise the links at http://www.911blogger.com if you would like more details about the anomalies and unanswered questions of 911 that were not addressed by the official Keen Commission Report.

    Finally, I am not saying there are no Arab or Muslim fundamentalist terrorist out to do harm to the USA and/or the West, but my advice would be just don’t accept at face value whatever bunkum you are exposed to by the talking heads or Pentagon or CIA spokespeople on the mainstream media as gospel truth, especially as it relates to terrorism. It’s been shown that often terrorist scares are hyped up when politicians like Bush or Blair are in trouble and then after the hoopla dies down, it turns out that things weren’t quite as critical as we had originally been led to believe.

    For example, see the article by Craig Murray “The UK Terror plot: what’s really going on?”
    at: http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html .

    Craig Murray, just as an FYI, was at one time the UK’s ambassador to Uzbekistan but he was fired by the Tony Blair government after he wouldn’t shut up and quit complaining about the Uzbekistan’s governments propensity to routinely use torture in interrogations. Uzbekistan at the time was a stalwart ally of Bush and Blair and provided military bases for use in the war on terror, so the Blair government apparently preferred that the ambassador remain quiet about the Uzbekistan security services propensity to boil people alive. See the article “Our President’s New Best Friend Boils People Alive at: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3943.htm if you are interested in further details.

  4. BFP

    Observer – there are plenty of culprits to go around, but only one Jihad that was facilitated.

    I don’t listen anymore to western pundits discussing why this and if only that.

    I only listen to those who strap on the bombs, who want me to adopt their religion or die.

    They say why they do this – and they don’t mention George Bush, the Britiish conquest of Arabia, or insults real or imagined.

    They say that the Koran commands violence to non-believers who will not submit. It is there. Read it.

    And never mind about “interpretations” as we do with Christian scripture. The Koran was delivered complete – in the language that Allah speaks. It is perfect. No interpretation is possible. It is clear.

    This is what the Jihadists say – from Saudi Arabia to Thailand – whereever there is violence to further the Islamic cause, it is always to please Allah. It is in the Koran.

    It just is.

  5. Crusty

    BFP Says:
    August 22nd, 2006 at 5:13 am

    They say that the Koran commands violence to non-believers who will not submit. It is there. Read it.

    And never mind about “interpretations” as we do with Christian scripture. The Koran was delivered complete – in the language that Allah speaks. It is perfect. No interpretation is possible. It is clear.

    ——

    If just a few words are altered, we get:

    They say that the Bible commands violence to non-believers who will not submit. It is there. Read it.

    And never mind about “interpretations” as we do with Muslim scripture. The Bible was delivered complete – in the language that God (Yahweh) speaks. It is perfect. No interpretation is possible. It is clear.

    ——

    Now that sounds a bit like a Christian Fundamentalist using
    the Old Testament to justify similar actions during the Crusades,
    or in Ireland twenty years ago, or in parts of Africa today.

    Take care with your bias – it might come back to bite you.

  6. Observer what is the point of your comments? is it that we should ignore the attempt to recreate that caliph? I do not have any interest in living under religious dictates of any stripe, christian or muslim, that we can be on guard against one and not the other makes no sense to me. Religious people are the most conservative members of any society and there is no distinction between christian or muslim in this regard. I have maintain that the christian and the muslim have more in commone, and the very people who stand to suffer the most should either of these groups get their way is the secular groups, who happen to be the biggest defenders of Islamic fundamentalism, who incidentily is the their biggest enemy. Some people are just suicidal.

    Crusty is not a bias to look to the facts as they are played out today. It is crazy to not pay attention to the real events around you.

  7. Crusty

    ADRIAN Says:
    August 22nd, 2006 at 3:04 pm

    I do not have any interest in living under religious dictates of any stripe, christian or muslim, that we can be on guard against one and not the other makes no sense to me.

    . . . the very people who stand to suffer the most should either of these groups get their way is the secular groups, who happen to be the biggest defenders of Islamic fundamentalism, who incidentily is the their biggest enemy. Some people are just suicidal.

    Crusty is not a bias to look to the facts as they are played out today. It is crazy to not pay attention to the real events around you.

    ——
    We agree on your first point – but it’s not clear from the BFP
    posts what might be the editorial opinion of this blog. I detect
    a pro-Christian bias that is unfavourable to human rights; that
    does not recognise the consequences of prior history; that
    tends to ignore advances in knowledge and awareness since
    the “Good Book” was written, and that might not consider the
    future consequences of said bias.

    Much damage has been done in the name of each religion, do
    we really want to add to it?

    That said, Barbados is a bit player on the world stage and our
    actions are driven by externalities upon which we have little or
    no influence. I suspect our contribution to world peace is mostly
    to stay out of the way and hope to pass quietly in the night.

    What secular groups are defending Islamic fundamentalism?
    For that matter, what secular groups are defending Christian
    fundamentalism?

    Is there a difference between defending something and
    understanding some of its causes?

    Have you noticed that the actual suicidal ones are mostly
    young males, disaffected with their current conditions.
    Couple the normal sense of invincibility of young males
    with a sense of aggrieved discontent and the result is often
    dangerous: excessive drinking, driving fast cars, unsafe
    sex, weapons related crime, suicide bombing – just a matter
    of degree.

  8. rightvwrong

    why would a terrorist bother with Barbados?

    What possible damage could they do more, than that which hasn’t already been perpetrated by their elected officials on the people of Barbados over the past 12 years? They have refined environmental and economic terrorism ( debt ) to a fine art bordering on eventual collapse of the whole system.

  9. ross

    rightvwrong, I agree with you. All we have to do now is see how this will all pan out for us in Barbados. Total collapse one way or another is the start of a good thing.

    “our actions are driven by externalities upon which we have little or
    no influence” – Crusty, where are you living? Could not be in Barbados where a handful of people have caused such economic and environmental disaster. How are you going to blame that on somebody external?

  10. Crusty

    ross Says:
    August 22nd, 2006 at 8:54 pm

    Crusty, where are you living? Could not be in Barbados where a handful of people have caused such economic and environmental disaster. How are you going to blame that on somebody external?

    —–
    Sorry I did not reply sooner. I unplugged my computer
    during the thunderstorm that just went through the
    south coast.

    Or maybe that was the sky falling… who goes by the
    name Chicken Little on this little rock?

    Strange definition of economic disaster – we have the
    lowest unemployment rate since Independence (and
    likely the lowest ever).

    We are in the midst of a housing boom – where’s all
    that money coming from? The banks are awash with
    it, have been for years. And it ain’t foreign cash.

    Strange definition of environmental disaster – we still
    have Graeme Hall Swamp – it hasn’t been filled in and
    turned into a housing development. And Greenland is
    not yet open as a landfill site – we can hope and pray
    it never happens – but the “disaster” has not yet caused
    any additional garbage in the sea off Belleplaine.

    Government has pledged to sign the Ramsar Treaty
    and we are hopeful it will happen soon.

    The East Coast might actually become a national park
    someday – at least nobody is trying to develop it
    beyond Cattlewash.

    Its interesting that environmental degradation is
    greatest in countries at the poor end of the scale.
    With increasing public and personal wealth there
    follows a noticable improvement in environmental
    protection.

    I suspect our good luck to be living in a booming
    world economy is the major reason for Barbados’
    current success, but no doubt the present ruling
    party will lay claim due to their great economic
    management. 🙂

  11. Anonymous

    Observer i really like how you presented the overwhelming evidence for Western goverment ( especially the United States ) complicity in acts of ‘terrorism ‘ throughout the years . In my own research it seems this is but a tip of the iceberg too when we look at recent world history . Yet people due to their religious biases are still able to ignore the buring facts . I am not saying that Islam doen’t have its violent and fundamentalist side but in case you guys haven’t noticed Christianity and other religions have been known in both past and recent times to be very violent and terroristic as well.

    I think the important thing to remember is that very powerful factions with nearly unlimited resources are also aware of our propensity( the west that is ) to be scared and suspicious of Muslims that they can be easily used as a source for contant fear and relinquishing of our rights for a little ‘safety’ . I mean the same tactics were used in Nazi Germany to encourage the populace to save them from the ‘enemy ‘ thus allowing the State to claim unreasonable and previously unattainable power without the ‘threat ‘ to the ‘homeland’ . Its just being done on a much larger scale this time around . Look at George Orwell’s book ‘1984’ , all the tactics of a everpresent enemy ( ‘terrorism’ ) and various villains ( Al Quaeda, Hezbollah , Hamas ) are being used to justify the increasing powers of governments with all the so-called necessary contant surveillance and stringent controls .

    So yesterday communism, today Islam might be the dreaded evil maybe tomorrow aliens , the point is fear must be created and perpetuated in our ‘little’ hearts . The same tactics are used just different players . I think we all need to become aware of them so that we won’t be easliy duped by all the hoopla and propaganda . If you don’t think so much hot air can be spread as truth , just remember that most of the worlds major media houses are owned by a handful of very large corporations. Whose friends and affiliates will probably benefit by all the weapons , war machines , and other paraphenalia required to keep us ‘safe’ . Personally i smell World Government and Microchips on the horizon , study it .

    Despite BFP’s obvious Christian bias , sites like these are so important for allowing different perpectives getting a wider audience. Respect.

  12. ross

    What a terrific perspective. Sounds great! So sorry, I must be the one living somewhere else.

  13. ross

    Crusty, What a terrific perspective. Sounds great! So sorry, I must be the one living somewhere else.

  14. Crusty

    Anonymous: Excellent points. Do you remember the moment in
    Orwell’s 1984 when the broadcast news suddenly started referring
    to a former ally as the enemy and the enemy as the new ally?
    I don’t remember which of Asia or the Americas became the new
    enemy of Europe.

    And protagonist Winston Smith’s job was to remove words from
    the dictionary under the premise that if you don’t have a word
    for some concept you can not think it. What was the name of his
    office – oh yeah : The Ministry of Truth.

    There was more prescience in that book than we give credit.

  15. West Side Davie

    crusty says…

    We agree on your first point – but it’s not clear from the BFP
    posts what might be the editorial opinion of this blog. I detect
    a pro-Christian bias that is unfavourable to human rights; that
    does not recognise the consequences of prior history; that
    tends to ignore advances in knowledge and awareness since
    the “Good Book” was written, and that might not consider the
    future consequences of said bias.

    Much damage has been done in the name of each religion, do
    we really want to add to it?

    Hey Crusty – What planet are you living on? To compare the actions of Christians in 2006 with the actions of Jihadists in 2006 is pure cuckoo land.

  16. Jane

    “Strange definition of economic disaster – we have the
    lowest unemployment rate since Independence (and
    likely the lowest ever)”.

    Here is another opinion http://www.nationnews.com/story/320615455987541.php

    “We are in the midst of a housing boom – where’s all
    that money coming from? The banks are awash with
    it, have been for years. And it ain’t foreign cash.”

    True. There is also a ton of “other money” from the booming drug trade which is doing the rounds. Barbados is a well known trans-shipment point yet not one drug Baron lives here. Wow!

    “Strange definition of environmental disaster – we still
    have Graeme Hall Swamp – it hasn’t been filled in and
    turned into a housing development. And Greenland is
    not yet open as a landfill site – we can hope and pray
    it never happens – but the “disaster” has not yet caused
    any additional garbage in the sea off Belleplaine.”

    The developers of the waterpark were directed to Graeme Hall. We are hearing nothing from the Government and are being treated with contempt and disrespect.

    The Government insists that the dump is going at Greenland. Silence on this one too.

    “Government has pledged to sign the Ramsar Treaty
    and we are hopeful it will happen soon.”

    Hopefully very soon, before the mangroves are dead. Have you seen the post today on BFP about the swamp?

    “The East Coast might actually become a national park
    someday – at least nobody is trying to develop it
    beyond Cattlewash.”

    Wishful thinking. There are significant developments planned for the East Coast beyond Cattlewash. There is development taking place in Belleplaine as we speak.

    “Its interesting that environmental degradation is
    greatest in countries at the poor end of the scale.
    With increasing public and personal wealth there
    follows a noticable improvement in environmental
    protection.”

    We, who care, want this to happen but we are only a few voices. Just drive and look.

    “I suspect our good luck to be living in a booming
    world economy is the major reason for Barbados’
    current success, but no doubt the present ruling
    party will lay claim due to their great economic
    management.”

    We do not want to be viewed as a Banana Republic so we’d better shape up fast because that is just what we are.

  17. Crusty

    Dueling opinions at 10 paces?

    From: http://www.nationnews.com/288745789228512.php

    High debt-to-GDP ratio no reason to panic
    Published on: 5/15/06.

    AT LEAST THREE Caribbean central bank heads have expressed
    confidence that their countries’ high debt to gross domestic product
    (GDP) ratio is manageable and not a sign to panic.

    This came from Barbados’ Dr Marion Williams, Eastern Caribbean
    Central Bank governor Sir Dwight Venner, and Emsley Tromp,
    president of the Bank of the Netherlands Antilles, as they spoke
    on the first day of the sixth Euromoney/LatinFinance Caribbean
    Investment Forum.

    Williams told the large audience gathered at Sherbourne Conference
    Centre on Two Mile Hill, St Michael, last Tuesday that Barbados’ debt
    situation should not be placed in the same category with what was
    happening globally or within the region.

    She said the current account deficit had reached the stage it was
    now at due to increasing competition within the banking sector –
    which led to credit expansion, a phased reduction in income tax
    rates, and the ongoing construction boom.

    While noting this island’s fiscal deficit was “higher than trend”
    (central Government debt stood at 77.7 per cent of GDP while
    off-central Government debt stood at 7 per cent), Williams said
    the contributing factors were “reversible” and she anticipated a
    “soft landing” in this economy’s future.

    SNIP

    [Sir Dwight Venner] added that sometimes countries had to
    “bite the bullet” and borrow to develop areas that might not
    show returns right away, but would contribute to the gross
    domestic product (GDP) down the road.

    Williams agreed with this, saying “debt is not debt is not debt”,
    and called for a distinction to be drawn between consumption
    debt and debt that was being used for productive purposes.

    End quote

    We pay Dr. Williams to be independent of government influence
    while she runs the Central Bank, so who ya gonna believe?

  18. Jane Goddard

    Well, we pay a lot of people to do and not to do a lot of things “independent of government influence” – but what do the facts say and what guidelines do these people follow (starting on page 76). http://www.transparency.org/content/download/1640/8341/file/carib_compos_q.pdf

  19. Jane

    Crusty, time will tell. We hope that Dr. Williams opinion is the correct one.

  20. Crusty

    West Side Davie Says:
    August 22nd, 2006 at 10:41 pm

    Hey Crusty – What planet are you living on? To compare the actions of Christians in 2006 with the actions of Jihadists in 2006 is pure cuckoo land.

    —-
    Is the Christian Serbian slaughter of 7,000+ Bosnian Muslims
    in 1992 close enough to 2006 for you?

    Or this one about Christian on Muslim violence (admittedly
    reciprocated) in Nigeria this year?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/23/AR2006022300647.html

    Is Christian against Christian violence exempt from consideration?
    How does one justify Rwanda in 1994? Estimated 800,000 deaths
    in about 100 days of slaughter.

    Christians seem such gentle, peace-loving people when you first
    meet them, don’t they? Sorry, I’m generalising. SOME Christians
    seem gentle … just like some Muslims are murderous Jihadists.

  21. Hants

    I agree there is no need to panic. Oh When will move Heaven and Earth to control things so doan worry be happy.

    Barbados will be fine as long as the rest of the world is doing well so why worry? Right?

    Barbadians have to concerned about this debt situation.This is serious stuff that needs to be monitored.

    The poor and the middle class will suffer the most if there is a serious downturn in the economy.

  22. ILLUMINATOR

    Hitler was a Catholic and so was Mussolini as well as the christians that slaughtered ( sorry i mean colonised ) the Incas , Mayans, Aztecs , and the North American Indians . Not to mention the ones that brought our ancestors over here on a ‘free’ labour contract . Priests were often part of the colonising crew .So I think we can all agree that religion at least people in the name or representing religions have caused much mayhem throughout history .

  23. BFP

    One of the big differences with acts of violence by supposed “christians” and acts of violence by muslim jihadists, is that anyone who claims to be a Christian and commited such acts of violence in supposed obedience to God would be shouted down by millions of real Christians.

    But frankly, I haven’t heard of any supposed Christians claiming that god told them to murder – but it is a daily diet from the Jihadists worldwide.

    When muslim jihadists commit mass violence and kill thousands, the muslim world rejoices in the streets and hands out candy.

    Big difference. Don’t know why we are even talking about it.

  24. BFP

    … and to claim that Hitler was Christian is totally absurd. A totally absurd statement by someone who must be from some other planet. Takes all kinds, I guess.

    Just amazing that some people have such a hate on for Christians that they would actually try to equate worldwide support for violent Jihad with Christian thought and actions in 2006.

  25. Crusty

    A common response by people who can’t refute the argument
    is to attack the messenger.

    Takes all kinds, I guess.

  26. Velzo

    I wonder if anyone read “Dr. Feel-good” by Patrick Hoyos in the business authority this week? Crusty should examine the facts.

  27. Crusty

    I did read the Hoyos article. It hasn’t changed my opinion.

    Mascoll is singing a different tune now that he has to
    defend his position rather than attack the other. Some
    might call that hypocritical. I think it is the duty of the
    loyal opposition to disparage the ruling party, otherwise
    why would the public think a change is needed?

    The facts are not in dispute – Barbados is running a high
    fiscal deficit. The question is – are we going to hell in a
    handbasket or not? I think not, others think differently.

    But :

    – when the credit rating agencies are holding or upgrading
    their ratings for Barbados,

    – when the governor of the Central Bank says the deficit is
    justifiable and manageable,

    – when there are no murmurings from the IMF,

    – when unemployment is at an all-time low,

    – when we are in the midst of a building boom,

    – when so many people can afford to buy a car that we
    now complain about traffic big-time,

    then I wonder what facts justify a contrary opinion.

  28. Velzo

    Some simple statements by Crusty sre so transparent:

    Who “buys” the car? The bank, finance company or the people?
    Building boom for whom? Who gets the concessions – Bajans or foreigners?

    When does the IMF murmur? Before or after? Think about it Crusty. 1981 and 1991 are good examples.

    The Central Bank Governor, as Courtney Blackman says, is a “creature of the Minister of Finance.”

    Credit-ratings what? These are rating relevant to capital market borrowings. Who owns the rating companies? Do a little research. The big question is what was the rating in 1994? And now? It has declined from the A-range to the B-range. That is a fact.

    Unemployment – whose statistics are you using, Crusty?

  29. Velzo

    The same ones that made Owen Arthur say, with much glee and glitz, in 1995 that he had created 10,000 jobs in one year and then he had to apologise to the county for relying on misleading information?

  30. Crusty

    Velzo, I will be happy to debate with you on any topic
    where you can back up your opinions with credible sources.
    If you question that of the Statistics Department, the
    Central Bank, the IMF, or the credit rating agencies, then
    please provide other sources and let us see how you
    develop your opinions.

    Without sources, your words are just the rantings of a
    strongly opinionated individual and you are at risk of being
    ignored.

  31. rightvwrong

    Isn’t this the whole point of the report by Transparency International referring to little or no accountability in government operations?

    Rantings and suspicions in an environment of little or no transparency and failure to diligently disclose is what you get. when Barbadians have no idea of what is going on financially.

    Everything becomes suspect and unfortuneately their worst fears and probably a lot more will turn out to be the truth. For example, where are the audited financials on Gems including a fair market assessment of what the assets are worth today and the losses that should be taken by all the lenders including government and the NIS? You all know why you are not getting them and its not just an issue of incompetency!!!

    The euphoria or appearance of a strong economy is fueled largely by government spending. How many new hotel chains or serious outside developers other than Sandy Lane and Royal Westmoreland would attempt to deal with government inertia, bureaucracy. and influence peddling?

  32. cbtb

    You are not born a ‘christian” like you are born black or white. Real christianity is beleiving that Jesus died and rose from the dead and following the Lord’s command to love Him with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbour as yourself.

    So please do not call people of the likes of Hitler a christian.

    I believe terrorism is at our back door we cannot be blind. Trinidad has alot of Muslems in their country, so do we and if you don’t know it alot of them are born in those same countries, supporting families in those countries. Look at how much Trinidadian investment is in Barbados who controls the money. And one of our leading companys who decided to buy their icecream from trinidad have also decided to buy their drinks from Trinidad. This is helping to strengthen that country but what is happening to ours ask yourself who is controlling the money.

    We run the white people but I tell you these people I don’t think that dem easy. Just wait.

    The whole objective of the moslems is to take over the world. they don’t only use weapons, they use economics.

    Think about it we buy big houses incur alot of debt. These people live simple but yet they have thriving businesses. What are they doing with that money. I put it to you that it is goint to their worthy cause to build the kingdom of Islam.

  33. cbtb

    oh was that yesterdays topic

  34. Velzo

    Crusty, you have no strong opinions? Is that a basis for being ignored. You sound a bit like Mia and the Chinese government. Strong opinions I do have and will always have. I am not a dummy.

    Read Owen Arthur’s speech to the 1995 BWU Workers Conference.

    One of my other sources is the Supermarket in the village where I shop. Not Washington D.C., nor Wall Street. I live in Barbados. Does anyone care anymore about who lives here? Or do we only cater for those who can fly on BA first class and shop at Harrods and fly back down three days later?

    Crusty, you can ignore me but reality is reality. And your people deserve everything they will get.

  35. ross

    Obviously Crusty lives in a different sphere to the rest of us but the majority of voters can see and feel what is happening without having to look at any statistics from the Statistics Department, the Central Bank, the IMF, or the credit rating agencies. We live it every day, we talk, we listen and we watch.

  36. Crusty

    I guess I do live in a different sphere, one that has a sunnier
    outlook. I shop at Harvest Mart and SuperCentre in Oistins.
    That must make my situation very different from “the rest
    of us”. And I do have strong opinions which I try to defend
    with evidence, not threats and derision.

    This particular thread has much to do with the outside world
    and little to do with the local rum shop and unless one is
    careful to sift through the propaganda called “news” on the
    various tv channels, it’s doubtful that rumshop opinions are
    all that well informed. I could be wrong about some shops
    but the words and concepts used here are not typical of
    what I hear and say there.

    Since we don’t live in south Lebanon, Baghdad, Kinshassa,
    or Coushatta, our opinions thereof are once-removed.
    Quality opinions are derived from reputable and repeatable
    sources – like Transparency International, the Statistics
    Department, Central Bank and IMF.

    Velzo, I not sure who are my people who “deserve every-
    thing they will get”, but I thank you for your good wishes.

    Some of the reading I did yesterday suggests that the
    1981 and 1992 crises in Barbados resulted from a
    combination of external events and too high a fiscal deficit.
    Since the Civil Service employs over 20,000 people in
    Barbados, when the governments of the day slashed
    expenditures the effect would have been felt in every
    village. Unless Oh When has totally lost his economic
    qualifications, I would expect a big drop in public
    expenditures after June 2007. And we can enjoy the
    fruits of better roads and a new Kensington Oval for
    many years to come. But maybe unemployment will
    rise because there will be fewer infrastructure projects.
    I expect there will be moans about political incompetence
    when that happens too.

    Yes, we must cater to those who fly first class. As a group
    they spend far more money in Barbados than their numbers
    suggest. Our primary export is tourism and if we want to
    continue enjoying the great quality of life here that fact
    must kept in mind. Service not servitude NISE.

  37. Jane Goddard

    Crusty, have you read the TI questionnaire on Barbados? If not, you should. The TI website http://www.transparency.org – “corruption ruins lives”.

  38. Crusty

    Jane: Yes, I read it twice. I think Transparency International
    is on the side of the good guys.

    Barbados was ranked 24th in the 2005 Corruption Perceptions
    Index. That’s out of 158 countries so ranked. Not bad for such
    a small, young, aspiring-to-developed-status country.

    Every country has opportunities for corruption – some are more
    egregious than others. We still have areas of potential
    improvement and I hope our politicians gain more respect from
    the voters for their honesty than for food baskets delivered just
    before voting day. Regrettably, some voters still think who you
    know matters more than doing the right thing, so they don’t
    refuse the gift.

    One consequence of such voter action is that some politicians
    think it still acceptable to make the offer. And by extension,
    they could think that politics is about filling the pockets of the
    incumbent and friends. Hugo Chavez in Venezuela promised a
    chicken in every pot and he got 60% of the vote. The fact that
    many Venezuelans have trouble affording a chicken goes
    some way to explaining his popularity. Rumours now circulate
    about his family’s newfound wealth and influence.

    It is said of politics that people get the leaders they deserve.
    Many an honest person refuses to get involved, in part due to
    the unsavoury reputation now assigned to all politicians.
    Believe it or not, some don’t deserve the reputation – I leave it
    to you to decide those who might be eligible. 🙂

    I wonder if a petition signed by thousands of voters would
    convince politicians that conflict of interest rules and periodic
    declarations of personal assets would be suitable topics for
    new laws, perhaps under the supervision of the Ombudsman
    or some other independent entity.

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